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No More Panasonics
  • peternappeternap

    I have two GH2's. The first one had a white spot on the LCD appear a few weeks after I bought it. I didn't do anything about it for a month or so, then I called for warranty repair. I got the RMA number and sent it to them. I got a voice message and called them back. They just wanted to tell me they had received it and give me the work order number.

    Two weeks later (today) I called and first they said there was no such work order. I'm not known for my pleasant disposition, so after a brief discussion, they found the work order and said they were waiting for my proof of purchase. More discussion ad they found the proof of purchase. Then he said there was physical damage and the charge would be $325.00 to repair it and I needed to call Texas. I called at 11:06 my time and they aren't open yet.

    I'm going to tell them to send it right back to me in the SAME condition I sent it to them in. This is my last fucking Panasonic. At least Canon has always honored their warranties even if the IQ isn't as good.

  • 47 Replies sorted by
  • amateuramateur

    sad to see that af100 is more used than GH2... http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhLW455Pl6tpOT0m0A

    the video has not been released yet, will do it.

  • peternappeternap

    You're right Vitaliy, I tend to wander. My apologies.

    To finish this up, I talked to Panasonic again today and a young lady answered so the conversation was more civil. They still can't tell me what the physical damage is, just that in their opinion, that's what it is.

    The explanation for "out of warranty" was that the warranty wouldn't cover the damage.

    It's on it's way back to me now.

    So that finishes it with new, in warranty purchases from the consumer division for me. I made the comment to Adaroma..."Great cameras, rotten company", his reply was "Absolutely".

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I think, topic totally derailed, as it is about AF100 now.

  • RamboRambo

    Onion brain said > It'll take you exactly ten minutes to discover why an AC130/160 is better for any kind of run-and-gun and/or event coverage.

    And variable speed servo zoom is a big plus here.

  • onionbrainonionbrain

    @peternap

    The correct answer is a full blown essay. The AC130 or AC160 are ENG cameras that do everything DSLR/DSLM cameras don't do, and vice versa. For any kind of event coverage -- an ENG camera is superior on so very many levels.

    In a general sense -- I'd rather have an AC160 and two GH2 cameras than an AF100 and two GH2 cameras. The former empowers you with supreme versatility, the latter is a collection of similar limitations.

    I'm happy to chat on the phone with you about it -- but the best answer is to go rent before you buy. It'll take you exactly ten minutes to discover why an AC130/160 is better for any kind of run-and-gun and/or event coverage.

  • ahblezaahbleza

    Another AF100 shooter here. I'm perfectly happy with the combination of my AF100 and GH2. Yes, the IQ isn't superb -- but for most commercial gigs, it's Good Enough. What's really important about the AF100 are:

    1) XLR for pro sound

    2) ND for shooting in changing light

    3) 1080p60 for smooth slow motion (this is an extra-cost upgrade)

    4) It looks professional, giving customers confidence

    5) Long battery life for continuous shoots (3.5 hours on one battery)

    Here's an interview section that I shot with my GH2 (blonde) and AF100 (brunette). The images are ungraded, so they don't quite match.

  • peternappeternap

    @Onionbrain I'm looking over the AC130. Why is that better for the seminars?

  • LPowellLPowell

    @onionbrain I pretty much agree with your points as well. The AF100 is a bread 'n butter camcorder that serves well in situations where all-in-one convenience and traditional broadcast practices outrank image quality. For me, the main value is in its connectors: MFT lens mount, XLR inputs, and HDMI/SDI outputs.

    The Master Pedestal setting is a curious thing. The reason I lowered it was to match the GH2's contrast range. But that also reduces shadow noise and increases highlight headroom, so it's an all-around win.

  • onionbrainonionbrain

    @LPowell

    In a general sence I agree with very much of your point. I think it was four years ago when I declared "coring' to be "evil" and was mocked by BG. I'm also a big fan of significantly reducing V-Detail.

    I very seriously evaluated the AF100 shortly after it was released, and I've got years of experience on the Panasonic pro line. Relative to an HVX200 -- it's amazing. Relative to a hacked GH2 it'll be pure frustration. Also, the lack of expanded focus assist on a camera designed to be used with manual focus primes is just pure insanity.

    On paper or on an HPX3700 Cine-D is the "cinestyle" dream. On anything below an HPX2700 it's just too damn noisy. You've cranked the master pedestal down pretty darn far -- I expect that's exactly to combat Cine-D noise (I don't remember if the AF-100 had that revised master pedestal numerical scale which started on the HPX170 replacing the old HVX200 scale -- in which case maybe you don't have it cranked down too far).

    Beyond that, yeah, your settings make sense. I never really noticed much of a noise difference between Norm1 (NTSC) and Norm2 (PAL), but I remember that was the big rage shortly after the camera was released.

    I guess my real point is that, in 2012, about two months before the release of the GH3 -- with mature GH2 hacks producing 150 Mbps intraframe mpeg-4 streams -- I just can't imagine spending three thousand on an AF-100 -- and I certainly couldn't recommend doing so to @Peternap -- one of the nicest guys in this forum.

  • LPowellLPowell

    @Onionbrain I suspect a large part of the AF100's reputation for poor detail and soft image quality is due to the type of Scene Files recommended by folks like AbelCine and prominent posters. The advocates of these settings tend to favor low Detail and rather high Pedestal and Coring (noise suppression). In some cases, these shooters are seeking to match the look of the Canon 5DMK2, which itself is quite soft. My experience in using the AF100 along with the GH2 has led me to quite different conclusions.

    Here's a direct comparison of unedited 100% crops of AF100 footage:

    AbelCine 5DMK2 Scene File for the AF100:

    http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/04/06/af100-scene-files-created-by-abelcine/

    image

    LPowell GH2 Scene File for the AF100:

    image

    AF100 GH2 Scene File

    Gamma CINE-LIKE D

    Matrix NORM2

    Detail Level -2

    V Detail Level -2

    Detail Coring -7

    Chroma Level -1

    Chroma Phase 0

    Master Ped -9

    AF100 - AbelCine 5DMK2 Scene File.jpg
    1024 x 620 - 190K
    AF100 - LPowell GH2 Scene File.jpg
    1024 x 620 - 207K
  • peternappeternap

    @Onionbrain I'm going to give it a pretty harsh workout before the return period expires. It seems to be one of those cameras people love or they hate, I have rails for both GH2's and a cage and mattbox and follow focus on one. Both have H4N's. It's bulky though.

    @sugarbelly Actually, I am known for my disposition.

    It's a little late to save that relationship even if someone else did intervene. I just spoke to them and my camera will be here on Thursday. I could have sworn I heard her ask someone for the Holey Water in the background.

    The internet connections in and out so we're getting ready to have another storm. Off grid is great in storms, I never lose power. Being in the boonies isn't great for the net though.

  • sugarbellysugarbelly

    @peternap:

    Yu might consider having someone call Panasonicnon your behalf if you're not known for your disposition. I've found the person working on the other end of the line can be crucial to the amount of help you receive. Remember, you want something from them. So it can really pay-off to be charming it may not be right, but it's part of human services. It can't hurt to try, try again with a different representative. Best of luck, Ben

  • onionbrainonionbrain

    @peternap

    I just saw this thread for the first time -- I'm sorry I couldn't respond before you pulled the trigger on the AF100. Seriously, test the hell out of your AF100 while you're still in the return window period -- because I recommend returning it.

    Buy a "cage" and matte box for one or two GH2's -- and you'll get a pro look and save about two thousand dollars. Or wait two or so months and dump the cash into two or so GH3's.

    The AF100 was only mildly impressive when it came out, and in terms of picture quality it's going to be nothing but frustrating relative to the images you've become accustomed to from a hacked GH2. Really -- the AF100 was the most lukewarm received "pro" camera in modern history -- entirely because of the images it creates. Features -- great. But, you're not selling camera features, you're selling images.

    Furthermore, if you're filming legal seminars you want an AC130/160 form factor -- like two or three of them.

    I'm telling you with all my heart -- send that damn AF100 back. Relative to an HVX200A it was mildly impressive. Relative to a hacked GH2 the images are profoundly mediocre.

    Regarding consumer customer service -- you simply treat these GH2's as disposable units. Yes, "Panasonic Solutions" (pro division) service is better -- they won't lose your camera -- but it will still take them eight to twelve weeks to get something, repaired or not, back to you.

  • Ralph_BRalph_B

    Congratulations, Peter. I'm sure you'll enjoy your new toy. It does have a lot of virtues.

  • peternappeternap

    I'm glad you said that Lee. I considered Ralph's warning very carefully, read all the old comments from last year, read hours onthis forum, watched videos.....and pulled the trigger on it a little while ago. It should be here on Wednesday. It's far from a perfect camera but I think it has a lot of potential for many of the things I do. It won't replace the GH2's but I'm keeping them anyway.

    I feel like I did back in the old days when I made the jump to large format and bought a Rapid Omega. It was the best LF camera I could afford in addition to my old Nikon. It's new territory with a new learning curve.

    I have a big event to video on the 2nd but I'm not going to bother taking the AF, I doubt I'll have the hang of it by then and this will be hectic. (Farmers protest and they're actually handing out pitchforks).

    The biggest thing I want it for now is a series of legal seminars I've been hired to video over the next year. Hopefully this will be the A camera I don't really have right now.

  • LPowellLPowell

    I agree with Ralph_B about the AF100's crude highlight handling, but aside from the pitfalls of shooting colored light sources, I think it's manageable. The AF100 needs its highlights protected with extreme care, and it has a built-in waveform monitor to help you do the job correctly. With decent indoor lighting, it can look nearly as good as a hacked GH2. But in an outdoor interview situation, you're going to want to look for some shade. I tried adjusting the highlight knee in the non-cinema gamma curves, but to no avail, the contrast is just too harsh. Fortunately, the Cine-Like D curve works well for my purposes.

  • stoneystoney

    I don't care about the gossip. I'm just saying there might be a good opportunity for those looking for AF100 deal. The Photokina is less than 2 months away.

  • peternappeternap

    @stonebat If you believe the gossip, the AF line will be dropped. Who knows?

  • stoneystoney

    If we don't see new successor of AF100 at this PhotoKina, we'd see a lot more used AF100 for sales.

  • peternappeternap

    They actually have two of them Lee. The better of the two is 3300.00 but is unused in the box. I bought it last night but got a fraud alert email from AmEx this morning telling me they blocked the charge. I'll have to have Audorama put it through again if I want it.

    @Ralph_B You make it difficult Ralph. You're one of the three voices of reason here I pay close attention to. No, I don't NEED it. I've been working with DSLR's as primary camera's, low end prosumer camcorders for interviews and GoPro's for a long time....but I'm trying to change my ways,

    I haven't broken any bones, been shot, stabbed or beaten with anything real hard for a couple of years. I haven't fallen off anything higher than 8 feet or had my chest waders fill with water for a while..I'm getting old and I'd like to join the ranks of Gentleman videographers. I wouldn't mind doing some work where I can pay attention to proper exposure and focus.

    I'm afraid the GH3's will still be in the Consumer side of Panasonic and I'm serious about never dealing with them on new equipment. I expect it will be a while before they show up used.

    Your points are well taken though and I'm going to think about it before I call Adaroma today, especially since I just got voice mail from Panasonic telling me my 5 month old camera was out of warranty (New story now) and they want 325.00 to repair it.

    Apparently they didn't understand last week when I said "No, there wasn't physical damage..box it up and send the Fu****ing thing back in the same condition I sent it to you in". Those people really know how to kill a sale!

    Maybe I need to buy some crayons and write them a note!

  • Ralph_BRalph_B

    @peternap

    Unless you really need it, don't get it. You might be disappointed with the picture. It doesn't have the ultra-fine detail the GH2 has. The AF100 has a stronger anti-aliasing filter which robs it of resolution. Also, the red channel blows out very quickly, causing highlights on skin tones and turn yellow. Yeach! You have to be very careful with the exposure to prevent it. But, if you're OK with those two things, then it is a nice camera. But with the GH3 just around the corner, well...

  • LPowellLPowell

    @peternap Adorama currently has a used AF100 for $3150 + shipping. Got mine on eBay for $2800, but I haven't seen another that low.

  • peternappeternap

    There don't seem to be a lot of second hand ones out there. Not even on Ebay. I found one and it's a little over priced.

    I really am on the fence about this, I don;t need it really but it would be useful and it's already paid for if I get it. (I set a percentage of each job aside for new toy....Equipment).

  • RamboRambo

    A secondhand AF100 is next on my buy list, I'm so invested in Pany lenses it's a cheap upgrade for a more Pro look. I have a soft spot for Pany Pro Division, I dunked my HMC150 in seawater 2 years ago, Pany replaced ALL the circuit board parts free, I only paid for labour and still honored the 3 year warrantee.

  • LPowellLPowell

    @peternap The AF100 has everything the GH2 lacks (and vice-versa). Namely:

    • Synced XLR audio inputs with real dials and switches
    • Built-in ND filters
    • Multiple-speed slow-motion @ 1080p
    • 1080p50/60 with audio @ merciless upgrade cost
    • Electronic remote control of iris and focus
    • HDMI/SDI monitor output
    • LCD Waveform monitor separate from viewfinder
    • Adjustable pedestal and gamma curves
    • Built-in hinged eye-cup
    • Professional-looking demeanor

    The (hacked) GH2 has:

    • Fabulous motion picture quality
    • High-resolution still-frame photography
    • ETC digital zoom modes
    • Four Thirds system auto-focus support
    • Viewfinder focus-assist magnification
    • Optional touch-screen operation
    • Light-weight compact size
    • Sneaky stealth-shot capability
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