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Part 2, Revenge of the Great Camera Shootout 2012
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  • I'll never buy an Arri Alexa or F65 but i seriously tried to pick the letters i thought best. I did 2 rounds. First top4 was B, H, C, I and second was H, B, C, A. I'm happy with the results and was able to figure out the 2 worst as well. Yes, Kudos to V and Nick!

  • Not sure why some peeps think the shootout is such a bad thing.

    I appreciated and enjoyed it. Thank you and congrats to all those involved. It was a HUGE effort and I'm guessing a big expense.

    I've constantly amazed at what the hacked gh2 gives us. What the shootout drove home to me was to overcome some of the stuff I don't like in the hacked gh2, takes a very large increase in price. Even then with the with 10x and 100x pricing increases, those same problems are still there to some extent.

    Lighting the scene properly almost makes the differences between the camera's at 2k not even definable, at least in regards to the opinions of those who got to watch on movie screens. I value those opinions as the many of peeps in the shootout have some very fine credentials.

    As others have said, story, storytelling, and production trumps the equipment. It's all good enough at this point.

    That said, I'm sitting here seriously thinking of canceling my Black Magic Camera order and saving the money, or maybe putting it towards more lights, SD Cards, and hard drives. Not an easy decision.

  • Recall the ending scene from Finding Nemo?

    [last lines]

    [the fish have managed to roll into the ocean in their plastic bags]

    Deb: Yay!

    Bloat: Ha, ha, ha, ha!

    Gill: We did it!

    [pause]

    Bloat: Now what?

  • I'm not saying the shootout is a bad thing. But such things don't tell us anything new. We are still lost in the sea of knowledge.

  • What it does is give me confidence that i'm not fooling myself and that I can in fact go ahead and do projects without having that nagging feeling that it's not as good as I think it looks. Sometimes you need some outside verification of what you're feeling. I also loved seeing pros work and see some of the things they do and what they're thinking. This was invaluable to a neophyte like me. If you're more seasoned then you can be jaded about such things, but for many of us that are in earlier stages this is great!

  • What I'd like to see are the responses and comments from the GH2 design engineers (both hardware and software engineers) and marketing people at Panasonic Corp.

  • Sorry, but I think the bottom line is that what was displayed in Part 2 of Zacuto's shootout is the video post-production equivalent of makeup artistry. While the results are impressive, the fact that even the iPhone's footage could be successfully graded with a professional makeover should be a tipoff as to how much wizardry was involved. As seen in the personal interviews, Hollywood industry folk are fervent believers in their talent for crafting illusions that defy objectivity. For them, everything is a matter of subjective taste and commercial prestige, conceits that Zacuto are only too pleased to graciously cultivate.

  • @LPowell - so you're saying that you're a big fan of S Weiss? ;)

    I am pleased with the results. If you guys think the GH2 fans are taking this a little too serious/victorious, you should have seen the RED fanboys tearing into their Ryan Walters. The guy actually felt like he needed to offer them an apology!

    I kind of feel like, "That's it?" One shot? One scene? REALLY tired of S Weiss et al milking so little content. PAINFUL. It would have been nice to see a few more set ups - at least ONE exterior or something with some extreme movement.

  • I personally commend the guts of Coppola, who put his reputation on the line. He could have picked the iPhone, after all. And if you haven't tried his "director's cut" wine--hard to find--give it a go. Otherwise, get the $11 Zinfandel which is also very good. As for the losers, which is everyone except the GH2, because it was the cheapest and either won or was dead even, OUCH (note the capital letters).

  • I agree with LPowell. Post wizardry and some crafty lighting.

  • Zzzzzzzz......

  • I will speak (as a wizard) that wizardry is a craft. Learn it... and suddenly there's no such thing as magic anymore, it's just something you do.

    I am not special, I just know wizardry, so it looks to everyone around me like I'm performing magic. But I'm not. I'm just doing what I do.

  • Honestly, I don't see what people are having such a strong reaction about.

    • The GH2 provides a great price to performance ratio and if you know what you are doing, you can (in many cases) control the shoot to get some really good results out of it.

    • That part of the test is not (nor was it presented as being) an objective evaluation of the technical capabilities of the cameras. Coppola did not pick "the GH2" as having the best technical performance, he picked the way it was used as being more appealing than the way some of the others were.

    • None of the cameras listed in the shootout are over-priced. Each one of them offers something at their price that none of the others do, and that is true across the board. The iPhone cannot compare with the GH2 for video, but the GH2 cannot run apps or make calls. The 7D cannot compare with the video resolution and codec performance of the GH2, but the GH2 cannot compare with battery life or (on the stills side) the burst mode buffer, native EF lens performance, etc. that the 7D offers. And none of those can shoot a variant of RAW like the F65, C500, Epic, Alexa or even BlackMagic Cinema camera.

    • Most of the people that have spent a lot of time in this forum have (at some point or another) engaged in enough pixel-peeping to be able to appreciate fairly subtle technical differences and the part after the creative/subjective blind test is really more the place to look at these.

    That said, I read through my earlier comments about the image quality of each example that I made here and on my website and (much like @shian) I feel happy to stand by them and have not edited any comments made before Part 2 was released since the time it came out.

    What is interesting to me is to note some of the things that were consistent between this subjective test and the one the rather uncontrolled test Bloom ran around December. I commented on the "sharp" look of the C300 and GH2 examples in this setup (just like those two examples stood out as especially sharp in the December test).

  • I am baffled that some consider lighting or even post processing as some form of wizardry in Cinematography. This is the base of it. Without light there is no cinematography, be it natural or artificial. How you use it or shape toward your subject is the true art of cinematography. It can start as from the simple use of a reflector.

    The same goes for post processing. Everything of quality in photography or cinematography has some use of post processing. It is not just now in the digital age but from the start of film. From choosing the emulsion to the time of exposure or contrast is a form of post processing.

    Another thing to consider, I and most of the people did not consider the image of the Iphone to be good enough. To some extent the Canon also. It is not as if those two camera did look as the rest even with the post processing and lighting. But the rest were close enough that with some skill you could get close result.

  • The last part will show the true difference between those cameras. Mainly in the DR of each camera. But the order they put it for the test is very good, because it talks more about the skill than just the camera. Sure there will be difference but the human factor is more important as the tech gets closer to this point. Many don't want to hear it.

    One big example is the red community, because they have been living in this "my camera is better than your, or my camera has better resolution than yours". Now this blind test shows how close the result from all these camera are (when a certain amount of skill is use)than 99% people could not be sure which is which.

    For people that have access to all these cameras it might not make that much difference. But for those that constantly live an environment where people that my camera is bigger and better than yours, they have a point of reference. He can see the zacuto test and get along with the confidence what he can do or not with his gear.

  • I will speak (as a wizard) that wizardry is a craft. Learn it... and suddenly there's no such thing as magic anymore, it's just something you do

    -

    I am baffled that some consider lighting or even post processing as some form of wizardry in Cinematography.

    +1

    This is crazy that people are basically implying that the lighting and coloring was a form of cheating. Guess what camera looks good with no regard to lighting/post work? None of them.

    What would be the point of a non-lit, non-graded, test where they just go shoot in extreme uncontrollable conditions with 20 stops of light across the scene? Now THAT would be stupid. Although I'm sure the Red, Arri, F65, and "pro gear" fan-boys would love it. "Look how good our car-priced cameras do in situations that nobody will ever shoot!!!" "everything else is inferior!!!" "yes!!!"

    Kudos to Zacuto. This is exactly the kind of test that was desperately needed, yet nobody else had that balls to do. I say, case closed. Time to go learn more about CGI, music, and writing... :)

  • I think the subjective part of the shootout really just levels the playing field. It almost goes without saying the anything shot using an Epic, Alexa or F65 etc is going have a lighting budget. So here you have cameras that have 13 stops+ of DR and they get the added bonus of decent lighting.

    Yet how often do DLSR's/GH2's etc which have at maybe best 8 stops of DR get that kind of lighting? I would dare to say rarely when in fact they would benefit from it the most. And that's what the shootout does. Gives these cheaper cameras a chance to compete on a level playing field. Of course take the lighting away and the advantage swings back to the big boys.

    The lesson here is light for both the aesthetic AND the camera.

  • To me this shootout is just a fun contest for its entertainment values, not to be taken as a serious camera competition.

    It is analogous to a car race on a very crowded Manhattan street with severely low posted speed limit. The Arri, Red and F65 may be ferrari's and Lamborghini's capable of top speed in excess of 200mph. But in the skilled hands and under certain conditions, they can be beaten by the hacked GH2, which is like a Lada that has been fitted with a Porsche engine by VK and tuned up by Driftwood, hehe.

    By the way, I have seen videos of Lada doing acrobatic tricks, and am very impressed by the skills of the drivers :=)

  • @pundit, you see where perception of fanboys (I am talking in general and not implying that you are one) take us all. I am not criticizing you but look at last year shootout. The DR is much closer that you are saying. In a control test the DSLR where about 11 stop and no the Epic does not go above 13, it is more like 12.5 . Every red fanboy would like you to think like this (Yellow highlight, blue channel clipping before the other ones). Only the alexa was the clear winner beyond 14 competing with film. I did a test of the hacked gh2 against the 7d. I would say at least about a tie. So the gh2 would be in the general 11 stop DR.

    This is what perception is all about. You know about this camera Dr, or the other one resolution and as you can't compare you just think that it is true. So there is a difference but not the 8 to 13/14 stop. Against the epic it would be 1.5/2 and the alexa 3/3.5. Not 5/6 stop as you imply.

  • The fat lady has sung! Here is Panasonic marketing's response on their Facebook:

    "Francis Ford Coppola along with a majority of those in attendance chose the GH2 as his top pick in the Zacuto Revenge of the Great Camera Shootout. Pretty cool for a camera that's almost 100 times cheaper than some of the competition."

    http://www.facebook.com/Panasonic

  • "Here is Panasonic marketing's response on their Facebook:

    "Francis Ford Coppola along with a majority of those in attendance chose the GH2 as his top pick"

    • but they didn't thank the Hack and the Patch. :(

    And now for the Canon & RED Fanbois Headline News:

    Francis Ford Coppola's Eyes Gone Bad! Should see Optometrist.

    Coppola's pick for worst camera: The Small Pet GoPro HD. "The feline Raiders of the Lost Ark Test looked terrible, but maybe it was just that giant rolling hairball Indy was running from..."

    "Now that a cat has become a cinematographer, I should retire. That darn cat and his GoPro!!" - Haskell Wexler

  • @paulhouston

    more like cherry-picking whose top pick to pick .:-)

  • I think it's a travesty that they call this a shootout. Steve Weiss is an arrogant fuck. He has taken something that has ALWAYS been about the gear and has turned it into a long, drawn out, circle jerk exposition. Nothing wrong with exposition but don't do it under the guise of being called a "Shootout." He mocks people who don't "get" his idea and just want to see results.

    I remember when "The Great Shootout" was a program made for comparing hardware.

    Why is it so strange that I treat this the same way as the previous entries?

    Who cares if I don't "get" the point of it. It's interesting to see how new cameras compare. Can you honestly tell me that a company like Zacuto, a company who MAKES camera gear, is telling us that the gear you have doesn't matter? REALLY? That would undermine EVERYTHING that a business stands for. That would mean that a well constructed PVC camera shoulder mount would serve the same purpose as their overpriced "technologically advanced" products.

    If it really is true that "it doesn't matter what camera you have, it's how you use it" then people are very informed by these shootout tests. A well known director chose the GH2 as his personal favorite.

    Don't tell me that there weren't a large number of people that attended the live showing in order to see results.

    I enjoyed seeing how each person approached setting up each camera. I like how they shared why and how they chose their settings. That was very informative and intriguing.

    Why is it that they are so obsessed with people "getting the point" of the shootout. Is it such a "deep" point that I won't get it? That's extremely ignorant for them to assume.

    They've taken a franchise that was MADE on comparing cameras and turned it into something else. They can't blame someone for wanting to watch it for the EXACT reasons it was originally made.

    This film business is filled with a bunch of false smiling liars who wouldn't dare say anything to upset a fellow DP. They give each other self-congratulatory pats on the back and think everything each other does is absolutely brilliant.

    As I am not falling in line with the numerous sheep who "get it", they immediately discount your opinion.

    I understand this shootout. What I get from it is that anyone can make a film, regardless of the equipment they possess. You don't have to be a silver spoon fed aristocrat in order to create good content. You just need the talent, experience and the know-how.

  • Panasonic shouldn't steal the thunder. It's a HACKED GH2 and not GH2.

  • @PixCanFly I was quick to point that out to them. If you go back and look at all the comments on their post, the first one was by me, stating as such.