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Black Magic: Is internal battery complete disaster or reliable solution?
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Look at the

    http://www.mpoweruk.com/life.htm article

    And also in PDF in attachment.

    It is easy to see that heat does not help batteries.

    As well as full charging (if you undercharge battery it'll live much longer and won't drop capacity so fast).

    image

    image

    And it looks like in BM Cinema Camera we have both of this issues.
    Battery is made small, so it is charged to full (hence it'll have very fast capacity drop) and it'll be made worse by temperature modes. Camera will make battery perform worse and battery in it's turn during charging will induce heat, and, hence, increased noise.

    accums.pdf
    156K
  • 30 Replies sorted by
  • MacalincagMacalincag

    Also, if your battery goes kaput, Blackmagic can replace it for $80.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Macalincag

    How it looks in practice? Is it for US only?

  • John_FarragutJohn_Farragut

    Yeah, it would have been better with no internal battery, but full external addon screwed to the buttom, like what you do with DSLR battery grips. More empty space inside the camera. External battery can still be made very flat if packed densely. And they could have offered different capacities. Meaning they could make money of it. :-) Seriously though, the BMCC was made to be modular, so why not go all the way?

  • MacalincagMacalincag

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    This information comes from John Brawley.

    "BMD will do an out of warranty battery replacement for $80 plus postage."

    also

    "...I believe they have service centres in every territory..."

    I highly doubt it will be restricted to the US as that would not make much sense.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Producing popular and modular camera is quite dangerous in our times. As you can end up selling relatively cheap head, and all the rest will go to Chinese and Korean firms :-)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Macalincag

    I still do not get it completely.
    You suppose to ship whole camera to them?
    Via all borders? This is why I think that it'l work normally in USA, and may be in few other countries.

  • MacalincagMacalincag

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    As for shipping the whole camera to them, I believe we can mark that one down in the "shortcomings" list. :-)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Yep, shipping 3K camera back and forth is not best idea.

    I think we are on the verge. As only very short time ago all had been focused around DBolex, same thing could happen with BM.
    It is now becoming clear that head with good connections, without any screen and battery is very good option for many.
    My personal view is that tablets and smartphones from one side and new x86 compatible CPUs will change the professional camera market forever.

  • csynccsync

    It seems like even though it's probably cheaper to put the battery inside, having to fund the centers to service all of the battery replacements is going to be a real cost hassle and might cost them more in the long run. A replaceable battery is a lot nicer, but most will be using this with an external power supply.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @csync

    This guys openly stated that design had been priority and Apple took some part in it :-)
    And you can't have replacable battery (Apple rule number 1 :-)

  • MacalincagMacalincag

    Speaking of batteries... my Macbook battery indicator LOL:

    Battery Indicator.png
    440 x 188 - 54K
  • johnbrawleyjohnbrawley

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev My understanding is, like the Hyperdeck, you return the camera to your local dealer. They replace the battery for something like US$80. There will probably be game and enterprising types that work out how to DIY. Also, Apple weren't consulted in the design of this camera. They certainly had to give their approval for ProRes though. BMD are apple centric and this is natural. They are a post company making products that enable a lot of apple product so it's natural they think of connections like Thunderbolt.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Also, Apple weren't consulted in the design of this camera

    I am sure I get some words about some Apple role from one of NAB coverage. Just can't remember exact clip.

    Thanks for clarification.

  • peterdv_dot_competerdv_dot_com

    You can think of and operate the BMCC as a camera that has a built-in >1.5 hour uninterruptible power supply. Reports are the BMCC switches instantly to its internal battery when ext. batt./AC power fails or is disconnected. The internal battery will recharge, even while the cam is in use, whenever an adequate external power source is connected.

    Typically you'd use the camera with an external 12-30VDC power source connected (battery or AC) just like other cams, but the BMCC also benefits from having a battery built-in that is adequate for short sessions, moving between set-ups, brief run & gun, etc.

    I think the convenience of the internal battery will be, on balance, a win. However, we'll have to see how the design plays out once the cam is in the hands of users.

  • John_FarragutJohn_Farragut

    @peterdv_dot_com

    The internal battery will recharge, even while the cam is in use, whenever an adequate external power source is connected.

    That's exactly the problem. :-)

  • yeehaanowyeehaanow

    No it's not a problem. Chill out guys, I'm sure it will be just like a laptop battery. It acts as a buffer, so it's not being 'used' when it's full and plugged in, thus increasing its lifespan if you use an external power source most of the time. Think of all the devices with built in batteries. iPhone. New laptops. Etc... As long as you don't discharge the internal battery fully every time, keep it above 80% charged, then it will last many many cycles. Probably long enough for the Next new camera to come out! Lol.

  • karlkarl

    Call me a pessimist, but I think the whole "internal battery" thing is about securing additional periodic income for the manufacturer. We've seen this all before: Ink printers, electric tooth brushes... all the kind of stuff were the initial sale is made at a moderate price, but the expendable goods will cost you a fortune over time.

    With an "internal battery", not only can the manufacturer ask you for an extra payment every 2 years or every 500 load cycles (whichever comes first, wearing out your battery), it's also a time-bomb on the product lifetime itself. If the manufacturer indends to sell a newer model, he'll make battery changes even more expensive and finally not offer them anymore at all.

    I for one would never buy a product where I don't see a chance to change the battery independend from the manufacturer (and yes, of course I do use 3rd party batteries in my GH2, too).

  • ghkqnghkqn

    I am convinced that manufacturers are just trying to get more revenues and more profits from the "internal battery love". Or may be it is a job program for after sales support. BM = Apple (same love in iphone and ipad). I have yet to see a battery that lasts as long as the mfg claims.

    Ditto with my lenovo laptop that hangs up from time to time at start up because I am using a 3rd party battery but luckily there is no internal battery yet.

  • Xenocide38Xenocide38

    It would be nice to have a user replaceable battery but I actually prefer this solution over what the current DSLRs offer. I hate having to switch from battery to ac adapter and back and forth depending on the situation. Many times I want to run dedicated power for the majority of the shoot but then have the freedom to unplug real quick, grab a shot and then return to ac power. Switching out the battery pack on the GH2 or 5D is so cumbersome and is quite a hassle especially when you're in a time crunch.

  • karlkarl

    @Xenocide38: So your argument is actually one for having a dedicated power inlet on the camera that can be used without removing the battery. Trivial to do, many cameras have that (and I wonder why the GH2 has not) and are also charging the battery while connected to external power. No reason to have the battery "built in", though.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    Internal battery is like buying a car--the value depreciates as soon as you drive it off the lot. But it basically is just stupid. It would have been better to use a system like monitors have where you can just put in a big Sony or Canon or Panasonic battery. As a general rule, I don't buy products where the battery can't be changed, because very quickly, you will be in a situation where you need to change it.

  • Brian202020Brian202020

    Those of you that shot with the RED ONE, remember this: http://redmodz.com/red-hot-swap-battery-plate-by-bebob/ The BMCC just has a built in longer lasting one of these. It's not meant to be the only battery. It's just to keep the power running between battery swaps, or for quick shots where the small size of the camera is crucial. It's a $3000 camera, and it's been said they wouldn't have been able to meet that price with a detachable battery. Blackmagic said they will replace the battery for $80 after the warranty ends.

  • kavadnikavadni

    My hope / guess is that it stops charging and powers from the DC input when you press record .. when not recording the battery charges.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I think anyone who thinks this solution is not a good thing is flat out ridiculous.

    It is not ridiculous.

    It's an amazing camera for $5,000 or even $10,000; to get all this for $3,000 is a dream.

    I clearly hope that we won't see anything like it anymore. It is just getting old.

  • Xenocide38Xenocide38

    @karl

    Yes, I think any serious camera should have both battery and a power input of some kind. I do find the built-in battery to be a negative aspect of the cinema camera but I think it's actually better than the GH2 where you have to choose between battery or ac power and you cant have both.

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