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LTO storage
  • Anyone using these storage systems for video archive? I'd be interested to hear war stories. http://www.quantum.com/Products/TapeDrives/LTOUltrium/LTO-3A/Index.aspx

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  • I highly doubt that many people here could use it :-)

  • Why does everyone use HDD? It must be the worst archive device ever. Seems to me you have to manage RAID arrays -- sit on them like a mother hen. Suppose I want to join a Satanic Cult for 5 years and leave my video projects on the table? Then quit the cult and return to video -- I'd hate to come back to those 5 y/o HDD's and pray they fired up again. BDD doesn't have the capacity. LTO and DLT seem the most bulletproof solution. What am I missing? Are the Data tape decks just too expensive? I noticed the vendors never seem to post their prices.

    I have boxes of HDV tapes that I find extremely comforting, my HDD's? Not so much.

  • At about £34/tape, it's definitely as, or if not more, economical as HDD archival, but the initial investment will be prohibitive for most.

    The IP interface is nice, but its limited protocol support is a missed opportunity I feel. SAMBA would have been a nice and convenient option.

  • @brianluce You don't need more complicated RAID configurations for archive. It's easier to just archive to a single HDD and offline it.

  • @itijim Yes, that's what I do now, buncha externals. But 7200 rpm has never given me a warm fuzzy feeling in the context of what I've invested to create content. I miss the redundancy of HDV tapes.

  • I think tapedrives works better for backup solutions. For data storage tapes are a bit slow to use, and need good software (Arcserve, Veritas). Broblem usually is library what is where. LTOs DLTs have wery long life, and are wery reliable if storaget right thats good point. I tryed DLT as datastorage some years ago, but get frustrated quite soon. Still using them as bu in my vital server configuration.

  • @brianluce Totally understand. I've had satisfactory results using HDD for any archive data for years now. My own personal content management governance is set at 5 years and destroy (or not care if it fails).

    Although, if I were to secure a gig that had a high content value, I'd probably price a life cycle on online storage as well as an offline tape too.

    I think it's all relative to commercial value and risk insurances. And with that, it's a personal or case by case thing. In terms of the technology, it works superb, and performs very well.

  • @brianluce Don't use that specific drive, but a similar one by Tandberg.

    From what I read from the description their 'professional video enhancement' may be nothing more than a fancy mxf based interface similar to LTFS, because LTFS is only supported since LTO-5.

    As I wrote already in the NAS thread, these drives are really only for backup/archiving, imho. 544 Mb/sec sounds nice, but that's read (streaming) speed, without seek time. So for just moving some files between sites a HDD is definitely more convenient. And normally they only have 200-300 complete write cycles per definition.

    But for archiving/backup these tapes are unbeatable. Using them since ~2001 (LTO-1) and upgraded to LTO-3 a few years ago (LTO-3 drives are the 'last' to be compatible with LTO-1 tapes). No Problems so far, the drive (SCSI version) still works without flaws, and the tapes are virtually indestructible.

    Don't know why so few people are using them, since the ~$1000-$1500 for the drive is a one time investment and you can use it for many years, some of them are built like tanks. I know, because I dropped mine a few times.

  • @brianluce @markus_b : $1000 - $1500 is a big up-front investment, and yes, mechanically you can use it for many years, but at the pace at which camera video capabilities are developing and hard drive and memory capacities are growing, 400GB per tape might feel as obsolete as DVD as a backup medium long before the drive wears out. Sure 400GB is a reasonable back-up capacity now when we're all shooting compressed 1080p, but in five years it wouldn't surprise me if people were shooting uncompressed 4k raw onto 1TB SD cards on their hacked GH5's. Who will want to buy three tapes at $50 each for an old clunky drive just to back up one memory card, when you could just use 32TB portable external drives that will sell for a couple hundred each?

  • @KeithLommel : You can also get yourself a LTO-5 drive within the same price range nowadays, which stores 1.5 TB UNcompressed (~$70 per Tape). I'm normally in the game business, but doing also trailers, animation and occasional VFX for music/film. So we have a lot of footage like mattes, renders with additional alpha's/depth/surface id/normal etc channels and these compress really well. So in reality you can fit even 5-10 TB to a single tape.

    From my experience, the tapes still work flawless, even 11 years later. Can't say that from any CD/DVD/HDD out there. That's the real difference between the systems: DVD/HDD you have to check far earlier for defects and then maybe copy them to new ones (and hopefully you did write parity info to another drive), if they start to degrade. And maybe it's just my paranoia, but the bigger the drive, the sooner it fails.

    For shortterm backup, there's nothing against HDD's, but for longterm I will always prefer tape.

  • @markus_b : I agree that hard disks are far from ideal backup solution, and frankly my own reliance on them keeps me up at night sometimes... Thanks for enlightening me on the latest LTO-5 capacities/costs (this stuff is so obscure most people have never heard of it, and pricing data is hard to come by). For a high-volume content producer like yourself, it does seem to be the most cost-effective solution.

    But for the average photo/video hobbyist, amateur or indie film-maker, who only keeps at most a few TB of footage per year, it's really hard to justify the investment in such an expensive machine. Bare 3.5" hard drives plugged into an external dock for backup, then stored idle are just a lot more cost effective (although admittedly not as reliable) at such small volumes. I wish it weren't so, because I'd feel a lot more comfortable with a tape-based solution...

  • I specially want to underline how small amount of WORM solutions exist or are being developed.
    Normal people for storing their work really need mostly WORM solutions with extremely large reliability.
    I am all for something looking like rock, something that is almost impossible to destroy, even intentionally.

  • Might be a good start up idea, I feel like I don't need a deck, as long as I had a WORM solution to store in safe place I'd sleep easier at night. I'd be willing to pay someone to back up my data in a bomb proof format.