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Using Super high speed (SH) photo burst mode
  • Dusty42Dusty42

    I am trying to spearhead a request to Vitaliy to put a hack in a future release of ptool to remove some restrictions on the "super high speed (SH)" photo burst mode. Leaving the mode as is, we're limited to photo sizes of "S" small jpeg 4 megapixel max, the longest shutter is 1/40 and shortest shutter is 1/1000?

    The request is to remove these restrictions to allow RAW shooting using this electronic shutter like the mechanical shutter. The benefit is huge. We will get silent photo shooting (good in places like churches), eliminate shutter induced vibration in long exposure, prolong camera's life by not using the mechanical shutter to do timelapse vid etc...

    Removing the restriction on file size will probably reduce the 40fps to something low due to hardware. But it's something that I am willing to trade in a heart beat. I am sure some of us feel the same.

    With the restrictions in place now, do you find the super high speed burst mode useful? Do you use this mode at all? In what application do you find the mode useful?

    Please share your thoughts on this and cast your vote.

    Thanks.

  • 24 Replies sorted by
  • izashizash

    I would definitely like this. It would make my GH2 a true time-lapse camera/

  • atticusdatticusd

    I would love to be able to use the electronic shutter at will, even if it means losing those 40 fps. As you said, silent Raw shooting and prolonging the mechanical shutter life are huge benefits. I really hope it can be done.

  • PtchawPtchaw

    The results compared with the same resolution shot with a mechanical shutter are comparitively poor and exhibit increased noise and lower dynamic range, from my observations.

    @izash You can already use the burst mode for timelapse, as a timelapse controller will fire quick enough to only take 1 frame.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    You can already use the burst mode for timelapse, as a timelapse controller will fire quick enough to only take 1 frame.

    Good idea.

    @Dusty42

    Thing that you must understand is that camera uses approach similar to MJPEG videos, not stills.
    So, this is essentially video mode saved as separate frames.

  • johnnymjohnnym

    That is great, cause the SH burst mode can shoot in 4:3 which would essentially allow to get that ratio at a much better quality than 480p (which still sucks for some reason) Is this hackable Vitaliy?

  • Dusty42Dusty42

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev,

    I had tried to do a timelapse using this mode with an external timer. I ran into 2 problems.

    1. I could not go down to 1/2 shutter.

    2. for the first 1 minute or so I got 1 fps as desired with the 1/40 shutter (not good). But as time went on, I got 2fps and worse sometimes 3fps. I had to write a batch script to pull out only the frames needed. The finished timelapse clip was not good because it was not smooth; it was too choppy.

    The 2fps or 3fps was probably due to my timer. It was about $70 from Amazon. I would still be stuck with the 1/40 shutter if I had a better timer with the current mode.

    Thanks for the explanation of how the cam handles this burst mode. I thought the mode was actually a still mode because I would have to put the mode dial to PASM before I could shoot burst. For mjpeg, I would have to put the dial in the vid mode. So, it seemed to me that the only things missing were the ability to select the size and the quality of the photo. Am I completely wrong?

    Thanks.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    So, it seemed to me that the only things missing were the ability to select the size and the quality of the photo. Am I completely wrong?

    You are wrong.
    You can't select anything, as sensor is unable to handle it, as well as LSI.
    As I already said, look at this as another video mode, limited due to processing and RAM restrictions.

  • Dusty42Dusty42

    @Vitaliy_Keselev,

    I got you. Thanks. Need to toss a few more coins into the piggy bank for the next cam for silent RAW shooting.

  • morrices22morrices22

    Vitaly would be very important, even 10 15 seconds in burst mode , I hope someone remove this limitation in my opinion a good mode in capture of motion. Do you know if the market there is a cheap room in bust mode that captures alemeno 10 15 seconds in jpeg ?

  • mpgxsvcdmpgxsvcd

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense now. So I guess we need to promote this to Panasonic instead of to you, right? Can you comment on whether it is feasible to extend the "B" mode 2 minute and 8 second exposure limit or not? Is this a hardware issue?

    Shooting RAW images with a silent shutter for unlimited exposure duration would be ideal for Astro Photography. That is something that Canon has embraced but Panasonic has not.

  • lenuisiblelenuisible

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    Thing that you must understand is that camera uses approach similar to MJPEG videos, not stills.

    Does that mean some MJPEG settings are shared with this burst mode ? Did you already see something in your researches ?

    Because if we could limit the fps to 1, and maximized the quality (even if it's 4K res), it will be a nice addition as a silent photo shooting mode ...

  • Dusty42Dusty42

    Panasonic clearly sold this burst mode as photo mode because one has to set the mode dial to photo in order to use the burst mode. This procedure is also needed to shoot mechanical shutter. One thing I do not understand is "where does the cam get the resource to process to 4-7fps RAW photos?" using mechanical shutter. If it could be hacked, at the expense of reduced fps to 2-3 for RAW, it would still be far superior than it is now.

  • thepalaliasthepalalias

    Keep this in mind: the camera should be able to do 5 FPS burst in stills. Are you able to achieve that on your card with RAW mode? If so, keep in mind that is heftily exceeding the maximum stable bitrates for video side of the card post-hack.

    In other words, there may be processing overhead or other limitations that apply to settings using electronic shutter vs mechanical shutter. I am not saying "do not try to make it work" I am just saying "do not be disappointed or surprised if it does not work". I hope you find a way to make it work because it seems important to you, though it is not to me, and because I like to see people overcome challenges. Hence being on this site. :)

  • Dusty42Dusty42

    "Keep this in mind: the camera should be able to do 5 FPS burst in stills. Are you able to achieve that on your card with RAW mode?"

    I quoted the 4-7fps RAW+jpeg from the manual for photo mode. Personally I find that too fast. Most shots are almost the same at this speed. I like to space out the shots a little more. This tends to give the right composure and expression in a shot from a burst.

    I factored in some overhead involved. Hence, I stated reduced fps to 2-3. But it does not look like it's going to happen because Vitaliy mentioned that the burst mode was like mjpeg. Of course, shooting RAW in mjpeg will never happen. Not yet.

    Thanks.

  • duartixduartix

    The biggest benefit of the SH Mode is well hidden. It's the lack of shutter induced vibration that creeps up when you are using long teles (like a 400mm) at relatively slow shutter speeds (like 1/100s).

    This issue although unnoticed (except for @mpgxsvcd 's reports here and there) is so big that I get much much sharper photos on SH mode triggering the shutter with my finger than using RAW and the 2s timer delay (both situations on a very solid tripod). The solution I've found so far is taking those 40fps and then stacking most of the good ones with PhotoAcute going for Super Resolution. It beats RAW detail anytime.

  • Dusty42Dusty42

    @duartix, another lesson learned for me today on the well hidden benefit. I have never gone that long on my cam. The longest I have used is the Panny 100mm-300mm for birding. Have gotten some good keepers. Only use mechanical shutter for RAW. Would love to be able to shoot RAW on electronic shutter but...

    Another benefit that I found with electronic shutter is that it's not affected by the nasty gamma shift on my cam using 14-140mm from Panny. The gamma shift affects all the vid modes and mechanical photo mode. I remember reading somewhere on PV; Vitaliy mentioned that the cam used different sensor modes for displaying on LCD/EVF and the moment the shutter/record button is pressed; or something along that line. Assuming that Vitaliy is correct, this means that the electronic "photo" mode uses the same sensor that used for displaying before the shutter/record button is pressed. Or it's something else. I mention this because it might shed some light for Vitaliy to look at the gamma shift. Do you notice this too? Or I just have a "good" copy of cam? :)

    Stacking the 40fps sounds very interesting. I understood some of the theory behind stacking. Wouldn't it only give you more DR and details? The frames must be exactly the same (minus details and tone) for stacking to work, right? Can you get bigger than the roughly 4 megapix from PhotoAcute?

    Need to look up PhotoAcute.

    Thanks a bunch for the tips.

  • flatlinersflatliners

    Hi, i just can't get Mysteron Burst mode to work. Everytime i push the trigger Burst Mode runs for a little more than 1second and stops. Im on a PAL Gh2 and recording to a Sandisk Extreme Pro 32G @95MB/s. i tried every camera mode. In some modes SH-burst doesnt even fire for 1 second. Am i missing something that needs to be set? Theres is so little to none information about Mysteron Burst Mode... I set image-size to S (2M), Burst to SH, aspect-ratio to 16:9 and i also tried to set the jpg Image-quality to the second lower quality mode, but i got always no more than 1 and a half seconds burst. Any Suggestions?

  • anti12anti12

    "Mysteron Burst" has nothing to do with Photo Burst Modes. It's called Burst because of it's high Data-Rate you will only be able to shoot some seconds of Video.

  • flatlinersflatliners

    @anti12 Ah ok. Thanks, Now i got it.

  • mpgxsvcdmpgxsvcd

    @duartix That is correct. With telephoto focal lengths an electronic or vibrationless shutter is essential.

    There are several ways to overcome this though. One is by selectively choosing the best images and interpolating between them. This is not true stacking because it doesn’t necessarily increase the exposure. It will help with “Bad Seeing” and increase the perceived resolution though.

    You can also get a black sheet of paper and place it in front of the scope when you press the shutter release button. If you set the exposure to 4-8 seconds and then use the piece of paper as a manual shutter you can essentially make an electronic/vibrationless shutter.

    You can also put a very dark moon filter on the scope and use a high powered barlow. That will allow you to shoot at very long shutter durations that are not affected as much by shutter vibration. I will demonstrate these techniques in my video tutorial.

  • duartixduartix

    @Flatliners : The SH Mode is working a designed. It shoots for 40 frames @ 40 fps, so only one second. I believe Nick @Driftwood 's post was loaded with irony, because except for resolution and 40fps, everything about it is like a SH mode.

    @Dusty42 : I had never heard of the gamma shift, will have to look into it. In this case, stacking will not give you more DR (well, not directly since the exposures weren't bracketed) it only gives you more detail and less noise. But since it gives you less noise, you will gain a marginal increase in DR in the shadows. Nothing that comes close to HDR though.

    PhotoAcute, if directed to Increase Resolution will give you a 2x output (2x2x4MP = 16 MP). It's not even close to a real 16MP image but it's definitely much better than the 4MP you start with. I'd say it's a 6-8MP equivalent but watch this space, I'll be posting a comparison on the short term.

  • duartixduartix

    @mpgxsvcd : Interesting techniques you are posting! :)

    Unfortunately they will have little use in the 1/200s to 1/10s SS range which is where I use and need them. :(

  • mpgxsvcdmpgxsvcd

    @duartix

    Yea there are a lot of things you can do if the subject is stationary or moves in an absolutely predictable path.

    Astrophotography is very difficult at first. However, the guys and gals that have been doing it for a long time have it down to a science. If you do exactly what they do it becomes very easy to get some astonishing images and videos. The problem is trying to find out exactly what they do.

    That is what I hope to do with my video. I want to give simple step by step instructions on what to buy, how to shoot with it, and when and where to use it.

  • duartixduartix

    @mpgxsvcd Yup, and you go there and tell that to the birds! ;)

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