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Why Android smartphones suck so much if you are shooting advanced video
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    From author of mcpro24fps software:

    From some iPhone users you can hear: "Android is bad!" At the same time, it is not clear whether we are talking about the OS or about all devices on Android.

    If we are talking about devices, then in the context of filming a video, I have to agree.

    If we are talking about the OS, then I fundamentally disagree.

    During the development of the application, and this is already almost 3 years, I faced a huge number of problems associated with the operation of individual devices and even problems inherent in all products of individual brands!

    Therefore, I can confidently assert that Android, as an OS, is almost never to blame for problems on devices.

    The whole tragedy of the Android world lies in the inappropriate attitude of phone manufacturers to the Android API documentation.

    They ignore all the possibilities, with a stubborn desire to replace the existing mechanisms with their own "crutches", which they also do not seek to document and generally advertise to the developers of third-party applications.

    Let's take a closer look at the most relevant features that users rush in and want in applications.

    Record 60 frames per second. By far the most requested feature among amateur users. Modern iPhone can 4K60 on all sensors available on the device. Modern Android in 99% of cases can only 1080 @ 60 in an application from the manufacturer, and 4K60 in 100% of cases can only in an application from the manufacturer. Behind the scenes, using a crystal ball of predictions (or an army of users, as I do), you can activate this function on individual devices. But these are "crutches", and we are talking about the normal work of the documentation. At the same time, in principle, you can forget about 4K60 on all sensors in 99% of cases, even with the use of crutches.

    Stabilization. The second most requested function. The modern iPhone allows you to enable both optical and digital stabilization (if available on the device) in third-party applications. Modern Android only from two manufacturers allows you to enable digital stabilization in third-party applications: Sony and Huawei. All the rest have undocumented solutions of the last century, which cannot be invented from the ceiling, and you can come to them only with the device in your hands. The funny thing is that this functionality is designated in the Camera2 API as provided and working, but in fact we have what we have.

    HDR video recording. Modern iPhones can record 10-bit HDR video, let you turn off metadata and leave only 10-bit. Modern Android does not always allow you to record 10 bits, even with the necessary hardware codec on board, and HDR video is a separate topic altogether. For some, it turns on automatically when the codec profile is activated, for others, the HDR video is hidden in some undocumented settings, for others, even if it is available in a native application, it cannot be activated in a third-party application.

    Ability to disable noise reduction and sharpening. We found Android to be an advantage over the iPhone. Apple does not allow users to adjust these two parameters, sadly but true. This is one of two disadvantages of the iPhone. But let's be honest, this doesn't always work on Android either. Samsung and Huawei decided for us that artificial sharpness is what we need. And you can at least turn off the sharpness, it will remain where it is. Noise cancellation also has its own strange behavior. It can be automatically turned on when the image processing is connected through the GPU of the phone. Some Xiaomi phones suffer from this. Considering all this, the advantage over the iPhone is somewhat blurred.

    Manual exposure adjustment. The iPhone has no problem with manually adjusting the exposure, but it does have an issue with automatic HDR that will ruin any video footage with its silly AI solutions. The mode turns on and off when he wants to, there is no way to control it. This is the second and final flaw on the iPhone. Let's be honest, the Chinese manufacturers that constantly look into Apple's mouth have copied this problem exactly, and new Android devices can suffer from the same disease. It is often not even clear why the image changes so unexpectedly. Either the system decided to highlight the frame for better focusing, or the white balance of the scene changed so dramatically, or it works the same HDR. The problem most often occurs on Xiaomi devices. Another problem with manual exposure adjustment is incorrect autofocus operation. On some Chinese devices, autofocus stops working as soon as the manual exposure mode is activated. Also, autofocus often works worse in third-party applications than in native applications. Why and why remains a mystery.

    Focus. As usual, both manual and automatic works on the iPhone as in the native application. Android was able to become a problem here as well. The most common, when autofocus can focus to infinity, and in the manual focus mode, it is simply unavailable, and it is not possible to focus on distant objects. The problem manifested itself on all Chinese-made devices, except for Huawei. And Samsung on Snapdragon devices generally made manual focus work ineffective.

    Manual white balance. For the most part, almost all sensors with Full support (read the Android documentation) handle this task. At this point, Huawei devices lost a lot because of their innovative solution with RYYB sensors. They had to turn off the manual WB setting for third-party applications, because Android does not know that such sensors exist.

    Secondary cameras (ultra-wide, telephoto). The modern iPhone allows you to shoot with all available cameras, and often in the same mode. Android tends to hide them from third-party apps. Samsung has been hiding its telephoto camera for many years, because it is very limited in capabilities and will look shameful against the background of the main module. OnePlus in new updates banned the use of secondary cameras altogether, with which this is connected, even OnePlus support cannot answer. Xiaomi does not officially give access to secondary sensors, but at the same time it does not block them tightly. I consider Sony's approach to be an adequate approach. They initially opened all the sensors without trying to hide their flaws. And the disadvantages can be very significant. The first and most serious one is the absence of any manual control. Second, the picture quality is 10 times worse than on the main sensor. The third one is the very different possibilities in terms of resolution and frame rate. With the main one capable of 4K, the secondary module may only be capable of 1080. Three more or less equal sensors are not present on any Android device today.

    Record 24/25 frames per second. Huawei devices may declare support or not. OnePlus devices basically ignore these frequencies as unnecessary. Xiaomi does not officially support anything, but it works great. Those. all work with these frequencies is fortune telling on the coffee grounds. The only manufacturer that has declared and maintained in working order is Sony.

    Full original in Russian at https://habr.com/ru/post/584616/

  • 11 Replies sorted by
  • DrDaveDrDave

    All my phones do 24p, I have no idea what that is about. My main issue is CFR vs VFR. Anyway, if you want pro features there are Android phones that do that, including 60p. The Sony phones have very good video and audio features, and they can also interface with Sony cameras. Do some Android phones lack pro features? Sure. But the big players in the market typically have pretty decent video.
    Using the Filmic app, you can set the white balance, lock the focus and increase the bit rate, film at 24p, and whatever.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @DrDave

    All my phones do 24p, I have no idea what that is about.

    Read carefully.

    Article is NOT about vendor camera application, it is about any third party apps.

    And guy actually is among leaders on the field who know 100x more than us.

  • MarcioKMarcioK

    The solution would be simples: Google should force that all manufacturers to implement full Camera2 API.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @MarcioK

    They can't force them, actually they are very afraid about Huawei OS huge progress, as all other Chinese manufacturers can jump to this train soon.

    If we go further - you can't make one hierarchical system to force other such systems to do something, it is not how things work.

    In real life we need agreements on modularity - how complex thing is being made and that exact interfaces exist and must be supported, but without Google. Such approach means death not only to Google, but to any big corporation.

    For last 150-200 years humanity fought complexity with larger hierarchical systems and more and more turning humans into specialized screws inside this systems. It became possible only due to exponential resources growth, as it is otherwise very inefficient way to make stuff. Now we reached the peak of resources and we reached the limit of such system. Now we are observing how it will collapse, in real time and in the front row.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    My third party apps do 24p as well. If you are using a totally crappy app, and it doesn't do 24p, then, presumably, you don't care or even know what it is, and in that case 30p is better for you.
    Also he is wrong about WB.

    24p.png
    300 x 168 - 7K
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @DrDave

    Record 24/25 frames per second. Huawei devices may declare support or not. OnePlus devices basically ignore these frequencies as unnecessary. Xiaomi does not officially support anything, but it works great. Those. all work with these frequencies is fortune telling on the coffee grounds. The only manufacturer that has declared and maintained in working order is Sony.

    It never said that it is impossible to make it working on specific phone. It says that if it works it frequently requires hacks and individual testing instead of looking on returned capabilities list.

    Manual white balance. For the most part, almost all sensors with Full support (read the Android documentation) handle this task.

    Where exactly he is wrong about WB?

  • DrDaveDrDave

    Hack for 24p? I mean, an app is not a hack. I don't need a hack for 24p. Individual testing? I just click the 24p menu. Also, if you are a videographer you are going to do some tests before a big project whether you need to or not. Who doesn't test? I test every single piece of gear before a big project.
    WB "They had to turn off the manual WB setting for third-party applications, because Android does not know that such sensors exist." I have never seen this. If you bought the wrong phone you might have this, of course, like anything. Like a TV with no 24p pulldown. My WB works in-phone and 3rd party.
    There's a lot of confusing language in the post, but when you buy a phone or a TV or a tablet or a monitor you check it has the features you want. If you want 60p, don't buy the TV or tablet or whatever that has not 60p. Now it could be that Apple products have a lot of these features standard, but it isn't an open hardware system. In an open hardware system you have a lot of choices. If you don't know what you want before buying, well, you might get the wrong thing.
    And if you want pro features, there is a big selection of phones that have pro features, like the Sony.
    Personally, I think a lot of the latest phones that have no analog audio input is just ridiculous, but there's always a work around. And a lot of these were mono, not stereo, and no one even noticed half the time.
    Funny thing about the Sony--it's so good for video but no one wants this phone because, in fact, most people don't buy the phone for the features. When I'm doing a Zoom meeting on how to make a YT vid with cheap gear, if I mention look for a used Sony phone, sometimes they are cheap, ppl have never even seen one. You just get eyeroll.
    I once was talking to some higher up guy for one of the big manufacturers, and I said a lot of pros would gobble up a phone or tablet that had a basic multitrack audio input, even if it was a snap on module. A $2 ADAT port even, for 8/24 or4/96kHz. Can be over a cable, no need even for optical. And the guy told me there was absolutely no way this would happen because R&D vs market and so on. He said they could do it, but they won't. It was interesting that basically they are just marketing to consumers. And, to be fair, it's only a small percentage of ppl want these things. Instead, RME and other companies made it work from the other end.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Hack for 24p? I mean, an app is not a hack. I don't need a hack for 24p. Individual testing? I just click the 24p menu. Also, if you are a videographer you are going to do some tests before a big project whether you need to or not. Who doesn't test? I test every single piece of gear before a big project.

    He is talking about his side. He can't just call proper function, get response if device support 24p and start using this mode. In reality this function can return anything that is not resembling reality. So for each exact model he get such phone temporary or interact with user and finds if this mode works, if he needs use non standard ways to enable this mode or hack around manufacturer protection not allowing to turn it on in anything except their own apps.

    when you buy a phone or a TV or a tablet or a monitor you check it has the features you want. If you want 60p, don't buy the TV or tablet or whatever that has not 60p.

    Actually that he is saying that in Android world 60p support can mean only one major camera and only in bad (for your purpose!) build in app.

    If you don't know what you want before buying, well, you might get the wrong thing.

    It won't save you, as listed video features can change even with each major OS update, can be horribly implemented, can work only on one camera, can be available only in special case in build in camera app (that can also change arbitrary).

  • DrDaveDrDave

    "In reality this function can return anything that is not resembling reality." I totally agree. I tested a bunch of 24p and it was anywhere from 24.8 to 21p.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @DrDave

    I totally agree. I tested a bunch of 24p and it was anywhere from 24.8 to 21p.

    I meant different thing. As you call special function to get camera capabilities and it can return that 24p mode is not supported, but it works and you need to figure out how to do it. Or it can tell that it is supported but in fact it never worked even in vendor app.

    On iPhone all is very strict and clear.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Some nice news

    After last update Samsung blocked 60 fps for 3rd party apps on S21.

    Nice corporations :-)

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