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It is open war - US now wants to ban WeChat
  • The SCMP is reporting that WeChat, a popular chat app developed and run by Chinese tech giant Tencent, will also be targeted by the Trump administration along with TikTok.

    The Trump administration will announce measures shortly against "a broad array” of Chinese-owned software that pose a "national security risk", according to Mike Pompeo, Trump's Secretary of State.

    Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said earlier that the app must either be "sold or blocked", and it appears that Beijing has soured on the optics of appearing to kowtow to Trump just before the election.

    Trump "will take action in the coming days with respect to a broad array of national-security risks that are presented by software connected to the Chinese Communist Party," Pompeo said.

    Apple is clearly done. We must hear retaliation as soon as two weeks from now. I'll update info from my inside source.

    As WeChat is not not something like TikTok, it is part of huge doupoly - Alipay and WeChat and it is foundation of China infrastructure. As you can do much more via WeChat than you can do via browser. And lot of people working with China as well as Chinese citizens of US use this apps (in US).

    It is the innovative messangers infrastructure that is very scary for US companies (who now own and control the browsers space).

    And it is only three regions where US does not have strong and full control - China (Alipay and WeChat), Mordor and Iran (both - Telegram that is getting more and more upopular).

  • 20 Replies sorted by
  • There are things here that escape my understanding at a technical level, and I have a degree in networking and protocols engineering. Take TikTok, which is already on ~100 million US phones. When they say ''blocked" what are they gonna do, bleed on it? They could force the app out of the Apple and Google Stores, yes. On the Android side there are 3rd party stores which will happily pick it up. So they get to stall its growth on iOS in the US, and prevent official store updates. They can possibly dismantle their US operations (as in employees/offices), if those things exist.

    The app will keep working. They can't prevent the app from opening TCP streams, or even raw IP sockets, connecting to overseas servers. They'd need the equivalent of the Great Chinese Firewall, and I expect there is no legal basis for that in a democracy. What could be done technically is force Apple and Google to push out system updates to REMOVE TikTok/WeChat from user phones in the US. But is there a legal basis for that? Is that a Republic, if you can keep it? And that is indeed war (of the 4th generation kind, with software and memes). Since Chinese phones in China don't connect to Google Play, it is inconsequential for them. It affects only Chinese expats using "Western" phones, but at least on Android they could install the Chinese store and operate as within China. Again, there's no way to block their network traffic, short of a Great Firewall.

    This is institutional posturing.

  • Administrative measures are simples to implement. ISP blacklisting, corporations block in store, etc, thing will become hard to use for common people and become disfuncional in US.

    The same thing facebook do to create monopoly here, they have agreements for instagram, messenger, whats APP so their apps dont use the limits of the data plan.

  • @RoadsidePicnic TikTok already downloads zip archives of binary code, and executes them dynamically. It rotates/updates the servers it connects to. You can argue that's the behavior of an insidious trojan, and there is merit to that assessment. My point is even if "blocked", TikTok will not stop working - on most phones. We shall see.

  • @radikalfilm

    When they say ''blocked" what are they gonna do, bleed on it? They could force the app out of the Apple and Google Stores, yes. On the Android side there are 3rd party stores which will happily pick it up. So they get to stall its growth on iOS in the US, and prevent official store updates. They can possibly dismantle their US operations (as in employees/offices), if those things exist.

    Removal from Google Play reduces new installs by avererage US or EU citizens from 10 to 100 times. Huawei is exception, but it is no smartphone sales in US.

    Also all new Android versions allow software removal from Google side and it is that will happen if Microsoft won't buy them. Fo US citizens, at least. iOS allows same for longer time and Apple pulled such numberous apps.

  • "Also all new Android versions allow software removal from Google side and it is that will happen if Microsoft won't buy them. Fo US citizens, at least. iOS allows same for longer time and Apple pulled such numberous apps."

    There will be riots in the streets. #TikTokLivesMatter

  • Video conferencing platform Zoom said Monday that the company will suspend all direct sales to the Chinese mainland from August 23 and will switch to a partner-only model in the region.

    While its Monday announcement did not specify the reason behind the decision, it is widely believed the move has something to do with concerns over the increasing US scrutiny on its ties to China.

    Such worries are not unfounded for Zoom, especially after seeing how unruly the Trump administration is being in its suppression of TikTok. Although Zoom, based in Silicon Valley, is an American company and its founder and CEO Eric Yuan is a US citizen, the company reportedly has a big development team in China, which has long contributed to its relatively low research and development costs over the years, according to its regulatory filing.

    Is this the real reason why Trump wants to ban TikTok?

    A theory explaining all this has quietly and persistently circulated among TikTokers since the ban was first discussed a few weeks ago: What if this has nothing to do with China, nothing to do with national security? What if this does have everything to do with Trump’s rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in June? The event was supposed to mark a return to the campaign assemblies that the president covets, a comeback show of force with nearly 20,000 people in attendance after months of Covid 19 lockdown. And it was totally ruined for him by TikTokers and other young people online who coordinated a campaign to register for tickets to the event and never show up. So, what if the ban on TikTok is retaliation for that?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/abrambrown/2020/08/01/is-this-the-real-reason-why-trump-wants-to-ban-tiktok/#5eddfd414aed

  • Trump executive order seeks to ban TikTok, WeChat 'transactions' in 45 days

    At same time, Trump also issued an executive order pushing the same ban for WeChat and its parent company Tencent. WeChat allows communication for people inside and outside China, and it’s unclear what a ban could mean for users in the US.

    These orders will certainly be challenged in court and it’s unclear exactly what “transactions” means until the Secretary of Commerce explains it, but Tencent has investments in many US companies, including Snapchat’s parent company (update: see below, as the White House states this will only relate to transactions that involve WeChat). It operates games like PUBG Mobile, owns Riot Games which makes League of Legends and Valorant, plus it owns a significant portion of Fortnite developer Epic Games. Its ownership stake in Activision Blizzard became an issue last year when a Hearthstone esports player was banned for supporting the Hong Kong protests.

    Tencent Films has also had a hand in producing many major movies recently, like Wonder Woman, Top Gun: Maverick, Terminator: Dark Fate and Venom. The same applies for music, as Tencent has a stake in Spotify after the companies swapped equity in 2018, recently closed a $3.3 billion deal to take an ownership stake in Universal Music Group and also owns a share of Warner Music.

    https://www.engadget.com/tiktok-wechat-executive-order-014615752.html

    Social media comments: banning transactions with Bytedance: Which means Bytedance won't get a penny from selling TikTok. So, 川建国同志, you want to block the sale of TikTok, right?
  • I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, find that additional steps must be taken to deal with the national emergency with respect to the information and communications technology and services supply chain declared in Executive Order 13873 of May 15, 2019 (Securing the Information and Communications Technology and Services Supply Chain). As I explained in an Executive Order of August 6, 2020 (Addressing the Threat Posed by Tiktok, and Taking Additional Steps to Address the National Emergency With Respect to the Information and Communications Technology and Services Supply Chain), the spread in the United States of mobile applications developed and owned by companies in the People’s Republic of China (China) continues to threaten the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States. To protect our Nation, I took action to address the threat posed by one mobile application, TikTok. Further action is needed to address a similar threat posed by another mobile application, WeChat.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-addressing-threat-posed-wechat/

    Always best to link to source.

    I like this Trump move as he literally showed that other countries must totally ban Facebook, Google, Instagram and Twitter in the same way.

  • Microsoft is chasing a deal to buy all of TikTok’s global business, including the viral video app’s operations in India and Europe, according to five people with knowledge of the talks. The US software company said on Sunday it was in negotiations with ByteDance, the Chinese owner of TikTok, to explore “a purchase of the TikTok service in the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand”. But Microsoft has since also pursued a plan that would include all countries where TikTok operates. TikTok does not operate in China, and such a deal would not extend to its China-facing sister app Douyin.

    I really hope that CHina will openly start to use pirated WIndows and Office and throw out Microsoft otherwise from CHina and other friendly countries. It is time.

  • China already ban all these.

  • @balldawg14

    China actually ban only some Google sites.

    Bing works and, of course all the soft also works and available.

  • Tiktok PR

    TikTok is a community full of creativity and passion, a home that brings joy to families and meaningful careers to creators. And we are building this platform for the long term. TikTok will be here for many years to come.

    We are shocked by the recent Executive Order, which was issued without any due process. For nearly a year, we have sought to engage with the US government in good faith to provide a constructive solution to the concerns that have been expressed. What we encountered instead was that the Administration paid no attention to facts, dictated terms of an agreement without going through standard legal processes, and tried to insert itself into negotiations between private businesses.

    We made clear our intentions to work with the appropriate officials to devise a solution to benefit our users, creators, partners, employees, and the broader community in the United States. There has been, and continues to be, no due process or adherence to the law. The text of the decision makes it plain that there has been a reliance on unnamed "reports" with no citations, fears that the app "may be" used for misinformation campaigns with no substantiation of such fears, and concerns about the collection of data that is industry standard for thousands of mobile apps around the world. We have made clear that TikTok has never shared user data with the Chinese government, nor censored content at its request. In fact, we make our moderation guidelines and algorithm source code available in our Transparency Center, which is a level of accountability no peer company has committed to. We even expressed our willingness to pursue a full sale of the US business to an American company.

    This Executive Order risks undermining global businesses' trust in the United States' commitment to the rule of law, which has served as a magnet for investment and spurred decades of American economic growth. And it sets a dangerous precedent for the concept of free expression and open markets. We will pursue all remedies available to us in order to ensure that the rule of law is not discarded and that our company and our users are treated fairly – if not by the Administration, then by the US courts.

    We want the 100 million Americans who love our platform because it is your home for expression, entertainment, and connection to know: TikTok has never, and will never, waver in our commitment to you. We prioritize your safety, security, and the trust of our community – always. As TikTok users, creators, partners, and family, you have the right to express your opinions to your elected representatives, including the White House. You have the right to be heard.

  • US WECHAT BAN WOULD MAKE IPHONES IN CHINA USELESS

    It is likely that removing WeChat from the App Store will be more detrimental to iOS users than Android. Android, unlike iOS, allows side-loading of apps that are not available on the Play store. Hence, iPhone users in China will be left out after the ban making their devices pretty much useless.

    Wechat is essential to daily life in China. Trump just wiped $13 billion out of Apple's annual revenue in China. And who will buy iphones in China if #WeChat can't be used on it? Apple's iphone market in China is bigger than that in the US. China is Apple's largest market worldwide.
  • Yes, panic spreads

    Tt’s hard to emphasize the prominence of WeChat China. As analyst Ben Thompson put it in 2017, “There is nothing in any other country that is comparable, particularly the Facebook properties (Facebook, Messenger, and WhatsApp) to which WeChat is commonly compared. All of those are about communication or wasting time: WeChat is that, but it is also for reading news, for hailing taxis, for paying for lunch (try and pay with cash for lunch, and you’ll look like a luddite), for accessing government resources, for business. For all intents and purposes WeChat is your phone, and to a far greater extent in China than anywhere else, your phone is everything.”

    An iPhone without WeChat is effectively not a phone at all for the hundreds of millions of Chinese users that rely on the service — customers on which Apple’s entire iPhone business model relies. If Apple can’t offer WeChat on the iPhone due to Trump’s ban, then its Chinese business will almost certainly evaporate overnight.

    Apple physically can’t outsource its manufacturing anywhere else in the world (and certainly not in the US). Then-COO Tim Cook led a 2005 shift to “just-in-time” manufacturing that cuts down on excess inventory and constantly pumps out new products. The result is that Apple today is almost exclusively reliant on Chinese manufacturers like Foxconn

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/8/21358941/wechat-ban-apple-china-business-trump-tariffs-trade-manufacturing-impact

  • Apple’s $44 Billion China Market Threatened by Trump WeChat Ban

    Apple Inc. spent years building China into a $44 billion growth driver. Then the U.S. president last week cast all that in doubt.

    IPhone loyalists across China are now reconsidering their attachment to the device after Donald Trump issued an executive order last week barring U.S. companies from doing business with WeChat, the super-app that has become integral to everyday life in the country. Scheduled to come into effect in roughly five weeks, the ban threatens to turn iPhones into expensive “electronic trash,” said Hong Kong resident Kenny Ou, who sees WeChat as one of the most essential software on his handset.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-12/apple-s-44-billion-china-market-threatened-by-trump-wechat-ban?fbclid=IwAR1ktZGCSbIgZP23ljTZlY8Pd8WkufyLOK0uIcjHiCIPHScBJ3700PzMsUk

  • @jleo

    Until Chinese people and part of elites understand that they need to throw out Apple ASAP, and in the worst possible moment, of course - nothing will change.

  • China announced new restrictions on artificial-intelligence technology exports that could further complicate the sale of TikTok’s U.S. operations, while intensifying the tech battle between the world’s two largest economies.

    The new restrictions, unveiled Friday by China’s ministries in charge of commerce and science and technology, cover such computing and data-processing technologies as text analysis, content recommendation, speech modeling and voice-recognition.

    Technologies on the list can’t be exported without a license from local commerce authorities.

    The new restrictions could throw a wrench into talks between Chinese tech firm ByteDance Ltd. and potential buyers, as the owner of TikTok faces pressure from the White House to quickly sell the popular short-video app’s U.S. operations or face an effective ban.

    On Saturday, China’s official Xinhua News Agency quoted a government trade adviser as saying that ByteDance should study the new export list and “seriously and cautiously” consider whether or not it should halt its sales negotiations.

  • What I can say to the American people is that it's critical that this country not use apps that are made in China or can take our data and move it to servers in China".

    "It will be used to steal your passwords, it will be used - in some cases - to blackmail or extort you," he added.

    "That's the policy position underlying why we have gone after TikTok and WeChat, and there will be others because China...is basically going out around the world trying to acquire technology and influence."

    White House trade advisor Pete Navarro

    It is amazing how Trump team destroying huge US software industry in so elegant fashion, pretending that they are fighting with China.

    80% of code each year in US software industry is being written by people who are not US citizens (for China 90-95% is being written by Chinese citizens), remaining 15% is also written by first generation immigrants, btw. Also 75% of all income is from selling software outside US (less than 25% for China). So, who exactly is stealing human resources and knowledge here?

  • why don't they just geo-fence wechat to china's iphones? Is there a technical reason they have to nuke it?

  • @hardimpact

    They want to buy it to keep users controllable, as if they will just ban it - another Chinese or Mordor app can catch this same users, who knows.