@LongJohnSilver

So, according to your post, today only a top player in the smartphone world would be able to design decent electronics by bringing the level of miniaturization of a smartphone into the electronics of a camera.

Not only top player, must have foundry, but he also must have big amount of engineers.

Things that we had in digital cameras market are:

1. Secret cartel between Samsung and Sony that killed both big Samsung sensors and Samsung camera LSI (best at the moment, that Sony matched only 5 years after). In return Samsung got access to most Sony mobile sensors technology. Another consequence is that Sony hiked prices of large sensors, their FF sensor is now around 4x of cost it will be if Samsung had been around. If not this cartel we'll have $599 new mirroless FF cameras with 48Mp sensors (without build in EVF).
2. Destruction of most LSI engineers teams at Panasonic, Sony and other companies, some remains still exist but usually they only help some third party teams. Top management got huge bonuses as it allowed to hike numbers for one year by slashing expenses (and selling factories).
3. Inability to agree and design complex modern LSI for all players, ala Qualcomm 865. Camera LSI must be even more complex. Modern camera require 8-16 powerful ARM cores, 2 low power ARM cores, NN accelerator, DSP, big video encoding and decoding block, multiple PCIe/NVMe controllers, support for DDR4L dual or four channel memory.
4. Economy of scale is now playing against all players, as sales going down at staggering pace. In 2020 cameras sales can not compete to any electronic device, so bad it all had been.

Well if Samsung LSI and imaging know-how took a hit it would explain the Samsung S20 Ultra 108MP camera. None of the advanced image processing is present. The Xiaomi Mi 10 uses the same sensor, and the results are miles in advance of what Samsung achieved with their own sensor. Marketing has taken over the asylum. 100x "space zoom". Pure crap.

Samsung just have old time issues with software and image processing.

They mostly originate from Korean management style, to be short - good software developers are incompative with such management and leave or never even come.

Also it is best to never listen to forums and most big sites considering smartphones photo quality. It is too profitable piece and even big sites now live on selling their opinions.

Samsung's top management were so corrupt,

It is such wrong statement. As attack on Samsung top management was inspired by US after famous mostly fake story about exploding batteries that started right after Samsung broke agreement with Apple on announcement and release dates. Consequences had been severe, but not so bad as Huawei getting now.

Samsung management made superb deal by forming cartel, as instead of anemic and barely alive cameras market they got hundreds of millions of sales for their new sensors.

Regarding economies of scale, it just needs smart thinking. Canon & Nikon have basically left the DSLR market for dead. Big opportunity for Pentax to provide high-end DSLR / optical viewfinder experience for those who don't want to go mirrorless. Yes it's a much smaller market, but Canon and Nikon have practically "gifted" their core business to Pentax. Make the DSLR in the classical sense, for artists, and leave the LSI rat race to the mirrorless camera market and smartphones.

Logic never touched this "analytics" :-)

But there is still Sigma, Panasonic, Fujifilm, Pentax there to make the "thinking man's" camera in smaller quantities.

LOL

Nice list. Management of one company is preparing for closure similar to Olympus (sale and ripping). Management of another talked about shutting down cameras manufacturing in 2021 if it won't be better. Management of third planning cut of 2/3 of marketing and PR people (that had been already cut 3 times) and huge core engineers and developers cuts after December (will be silent). Managers of final one had pleasure of listening to lot of f--k words for making camera that top managers now do not know that to do with, as it brings only losses for each sale - best is to kill but they are afraid to loose face.

The "emotions" are all part of the story. We are customers, not robots. If we put our trust into a company based on their reputation for good kit, and what's being sold to us (8K / 4K 120p pro camera) and it comes back very different to what's advertised you can't expect people not to have any feelings beyond a rational desire to maybe return it, or maybe to try and work-around it on a creative shoot.

It is not just a rational process to think this through, and it is difficult emotionally to justify $4K for a professional 8K / 4K HQ camera this crippled and cynical.

Difficult for people to be happy knowing what they know, or to believe Canon treats them like clowns. Just another number, to upsell to Cinema EOS product.

Regarding battery for the realtime clock... Why does a genuine real-time temperature monitor even need to watch the time at all, let alone store it in non-volatile memory. A genuine real-time temperature monitor would read the actual CPU temp in real-time during recording, and various other critical temperatures, and give best estimates on where on the curve these are and how long you have left before recording ends. Shut the camera down based just on that info. No timers, no bullshit. And 1 hour recovery timer is the most fake of them all in my opinion.

Indeed, what kind of CPU begins to thermal throttle at 64C anyway?

As for proper independent tests... Already done and reported. Unless the Baidu guy is completely making stuff up and risking his opened-up $4000 camera a trip to the dustbin... It would be very odd.

The API and Wifi app on my side by CDA-TEK also contains enough clues, when combined with the real-world behaviour of my camera.

And your opinions are also valuable on the technical side.

The PCB on top of the main processor and RAM, preventing thermal conduction with the alloy back...

Absolutely terrible and probably on purpose.

In my opinion:

Canon had no intention in mitigating real heat for 2 hours of 8K recording.

They had no intention in allowing firmware timer to allow more than 20 minutes.

This is how tightly the thing is strangled.

And how badly they want you to use a $15,000 camcorder instead.

The EXIF temp gives us just a relative indication... Camera rises to 59C in the not-limited by heat mode (pixel binned 4K). Camera rises to 61C, max 64C in hot ambient temps, in the "limited by heat 4K HQ and 8K mode".

So the relative indication shows that there is just 2C between a mode that can record forever until the battery dies and a mode that is so hot that it has to take a one hour break after 15 mins.

The temp is so stable in live-view in fact, over the course of 1 hour, that it doesn't even go up 2 degrees... Maybe 1.

And yet the difference in recording time in 4K HQ between the start of that 1 hour of stills shooting, and the end of it is 30 mins.

It goes from 30 to zero.

Apparently we now live through an era of the camera industry where an entirely new LSI and sensor is made purely for marketing purposes and not to be actually used by the people who fund the development and manufacturing... At tune of $4k each.

Apparently we now live through an era of the camera industry where an entirely new LSI and sensor is made purely for marketing purposes and not to be actually used by the people who fund the development and manufacturing... At tune of $4k each.

Read carefully that had been written.

Andrew do you have hysteria? :-)

Unlike the Mordor autocrat government or the management behind VW’s “defeat device” I do not think all people are that stupid. I do not think all people can be sold lazy excuses and be told to eat candy, to keep your blood sugar levels up and avoid metabolic disorders that end up in screaming agony then a coma in Omsk. The same people who think they can get away with poisoning the opposition, and glibly lying to the public, are the same people who will try to cover up the cynical market segmentation of the EOS R5 or the VW emissions scandal, by glibly lying to customers and discrediting the journalists who reveal the stories in the first place.

https://www.eoshd.com/news/hey-squarespace-reconsider-your-sponsorship-of-tony-northrup-perhaps/

What is the issue, Tony is businessmen, Andrew is also businessman, Canon management are even better business people. If money are at stake - nothing else matters, right?

Btw, shallow journalism examples all other the place:

It is not "Mordor autocrat government", this guy had beep proven scammer and stole lot of money but had been awarded softest sentence country ever saw. Guy collected big sponsors money, including from companies, while all other real opposition had zero chance to do this. Youtube channel had been promoted by largest marketing agencies who also work with government, and promoted by top official news. Long story short - government and popular "opposition" are all of the same - servants of the ruling class. Sometimes things happen if they decide that one of the other are no longer required or need to change location and lead new complain. Main official version of our opposition is that he had drug overdose. Regime actually did everything to not tell public actual version as it will mean that the guy will be done in public field. Plus he had upcoming trial in 3 days as he called old war veteran with obscene words (and if you get meaning - actually prized fascists, people he direct fought in fascist groups during recent Belarus events) and it could end badly both legally and publicly also.

Management behind VW’s defeat device is actually all top VW management and it is not because they are some kind of criminals, it is because EU bureaucracy set such goals that are physically impossible to achieve, but same bureaucracy told them to keep producing cars. As soon as world started to have issues with certain kinds of oil used to make diesel (yes, it is complex thing requiring tons of info) this same bureaucrats started holy war under pretense of ecology and green energy.

Continuity of song and sad story

And reusing idea that other people already made before Andrew.

According to Horshack and Magic Lantern, most digital cameras have two types of internal memory:

• RAM, which is volatile and fast memory. Volatile means it loses anything stored in it when power is removed.
• NVRAM, which stands for non-volatile RAM. This can store data permanently when the battery is removed, but should not be written into regularly as it has a limited read/write lifespan.

I tried to explain above about such values storage, but it seems like I failed to get to Andrew (NVRAM is general term, btw). So until he saw ready to use video with this text he can't understand.

As Horshack and Magic Lantern understand it better than anyone as skilled software developers, cameras typically don’t update the information in NVRAM until they’re turned off in an orderly fashion. So if you adjust the aperture and ISO, the camera will not immediately remember these settings by writing them to NVRAM every time they change…. only to normal RAM. Then, these settings are lost if they are not written to permanent NVRAM memory upon an orderly shut down.

As we will see below Canon has special advanced idiotic algorithm (as it can make real mess), but on many other cameras values are written right away (but can have RAM copy for general usage).

The battery door on the EOS R5 has a small hidden switch which cleanly powers-off the camera in a controlled way, should the door is opened. This gives the camera prior warning that it may be about to lose power from a battery swap. This is also to prevent a user from suddenly removing power from the camera without it having the chance orderly save the video clip it is recording, or the state it is in, such as the most recent shooting settings like shutter speed, ISO and aperture.

It is just mess and disaster.

Using screw around battery and connector near it is "smart" idea. Use proper plastic or wooden part if you so want this mess.

https://www.eoshd.com/news/canon-eos-r5-so-called-overheat-timer-defeated-by-a-single-screw-in-battery-door/

I think he is saying that if the thermal management were tied to the temperature inside the camera, the shooting limit would be reached once a certain temperature is reached. However, that is not what is happening here.

Here, it seems to be a timer unrelated to internal temperature - as you can run all day long with this method, seemingly without regard to internal temperature inside camera.

Doesn't mean thermal management is not required, but the way it is implemented is inelegant solution and certainly raises eyebrows.

Is it possible that the disassembled camera of chinese guy would be a preproduction model and not be a fully and proper thermal protected camera?

Andrew is in the nervous breakdown mode

Who the fuck do these social media salesmen think they are? Doling out Canon’s PR line like Marie Antoinette – “Let them eat cake!”

Marie Antoinette never told this, it is legend.

If you wait 1 hour with the camera you just paid 4 grand for – Marie Canon will throw you 15 minutes of further run-time instead of 10 minutes, but only if you don’t do any stills first!

English and physics are classes that Andrew missed in school. As Canon guys and I before them even WROTE to him (see post above) about things that happen with camera.

The firmware file encryption has been changed to make it extra difficult for Magic Lantern to take a peek inside. So unless I can confirm that it’s possible to roll back to the old firmware if necessary, I won’t be touching it with a barge poll.

Are Canon obliged now to share privately keys and information to ML members (because as years ago I asked few questions of origins of few encryption keys ML leaders went into very unkind mode and one year after this one their ex team member sent me info that Canon provides some information to very few key people in ML)? It is also really strange to see anything similar and very probable that Andrew again did not get something right here..