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Paradoxical personal observation
  • All people I know who furiously are for free market and extreme competition work in relatively big companies on stable job with good social package.

    On the contrary, all most proponent haters of free market are small sellers, small entrepreneurs, contractors and freelancers.
    They must have feel all the benefits, but most probably all of them are blind or defective. :-)

  • 15 Replies sorted by
  • I think it is because people confuse "free market" with freedom. Clearly, corporations (which are a-moral by their very nature as imaginary legal entities) need to be governed and regulated intelligently. Healthy competition benefits consumers; unhealthy competition leads to "winner take all" monopolies or cartels that will exploit the situation to the maximum.

    Just my opinion, as an independent small contractor of course :)

  • I think it is because people confuse "free market" with freedom

    Never had such experience, at least from second group of people :-)

    As for first one I think they confuse it with fairy talks from some books.

    Clearly, corporations (which are a-moral by their very nature as imaginary legal entities) need to be governed and regulated intelligently. Healthy competition benefits consumers; unhealthy competition leads to "winner take all" monopolies or cartels that will exploit the situation to the maximum.

    Governed by whom exactly and how?

    As simple observation shows that all anti monopoly saws and corresponding government bodies sleep like dead. And it is good reason for this.

  • In general big corporations benefit vastly for government control due to factors known as corporate welfare:

    • patent protection
    • trademark protection
    • licenses and regulation
    • big corporations are the only ones with enough cash and manpower to handle these regulations
    • (Newcomers to a market however will meet "barriers to entry")
    • subsidies from governement
    • etc

    The "haters off free market" are thus wrong to assume that they have a free market in the first place.

  • Okay, I'll jump up on my soap box for a couple of minutes.

    I'm just a one-man band creative services guy (video, web, design, etc...) and conservative libertarian who believes the best way to foster economic opportunity and growth is through the capitalist system. That said, I am not naive to the point that I think it's a level playing field in the open market. Favoritism, politics, monopolies, collusion and other factors can make it hard to compete, but I think we wouldn't be discussing the amazing technological developments of the last century were it not for the ability of both the common Joe and large firms to create, innovate and potentially profit.

    There are many examples of rags-to-riches stories under capitalism, which all serve to inspire and provide incentive for the little guys like me to push forward and continue to think outside the box. Steve Jobs was dude not unlike many of us who, with a buddy, started building a new kind of computer out of a small garage. Colonel Sanders didn't start KFC until is was an old man, but profited greatly with his vision of a better chicken recipe nonetheless. (Maybe he had to wait for his 11 herbs and spices to ferment, who knows?!?)

    I'm not at all convinced that economic policies and directives from any other form of government would result in the same kind of innovation and technological advances. When it exists in its purist form, I believe free market competition provides drive and motivation to create better mousetraps and gives the market choices that otherwise wouldn't exist. I understand the problematic concept of planned obsolescence and holding back innovation for future profits, but it's all part of the competitive risk-taking landscape. (If I'm a large company waiting to launch my new breakthrough camera technology, I run the risk of my competition launching before me.) I also know that there are many examples of unfair trade practices, but that's why laws and the legal process exists. As an aside, it seems clear that much of Blackmagic's strategy is to announce new cameras and technology without any foreseeable release date or production schedule simply to freeze their potential customers from buying competitor's goods today. This, of course, could backfire on them.

    There is no perfect economic system, but I believe one where individuals and companies are able to thrive in a more open market environment is the healthiest and provides more creative potential and profitable market opportunities. Regarding protectionism, both individuals and large corporations certainly benefit from patent and trademark protection. It took him a long while, but Robert Kearns was finally awarded many millions of dollars from the auto industry who infringed on his intermittent wiper patents.

    It's easy to decry the enormous cash reserves of Apple and Amazon, but it is up to the market to determine whether each company's innovations are worth the price. Evidently they are, at least for the time being.

    In 1900, the average life expectancy was something close to 45 years of age. Now it's closer to 80. While there are always exceptions, I would argue that our improved quality of life correlates to advances provided by the free market.

    Parenthetically, part of my libertarian philosophical leanings stem from my own personal experiences. In 1969 the government (through eminent domain) confiscated our 200-acre family farm and paid my grandparents "fair market value." In the end, much of this compensation was confiscated by capital gains taxes. As a result, we ended up in a mobile home until my mother died a few years later.

    I, too, may die a pauper, but I'd rather be free to explore a variety of market opportunities than be pigeon-holed into a more centrally-planned and rigid economic model that penalizes success, stifles market opportunities and inefficiently redistributes the resources generated through personal risk-taking in a competitive environment. I would take self-sufficiency over government dependency any day of the week.

  • ... and when a corporation becomes large enough to crush all smaller competition through powerful vertical integration and tactics such as buying the market by running a short-term loss for a given product until the competition are driven out of business, knowing that their profits in other divisions are more than enough to make up for it?

    Free market economics stupidly assume a level playing field which absolutely cannot exist.

  • In 1900, the average life expectancy was something close to 45 years of age. Now it's closer to 80. While there are always exceptions, I would argue that our improved quality of life correlates to advances provided by the free market.

    Glad that I sat during reading this :-)

    As if you open any professional medicine journal on the subject you will find that it is progress in state medicine and free state sponsored vaccines that made it all work. And communist countries had lead on this and had most progress in life length.

  • @eatstoomuchjam

    ... and when a corporation becomes large enough to crush all smaller competition through powerful vertical integration and tactics such as buying the market by running a short-term loss for a given product until the competition are driven out of business, knowing that their profits in other divisions are more than enough to make up for it?

    Smart people wrote this in early 20th century in details and in less details in 19th century.

    Free market economics stupidly assume a level playing field which absolutely cannot exist.

    It means that capitalism develops. Cry for free market and even playing field is exactly same as cry for your 25 year old son to become small again. Does not work.

  • I thank "god" every day that I live north of the USA - where most people are only one bad illness away from bankruptcy due to the "free market" for medical care. If you get bitten by a rattlesnake, you should throw yourself off the nearest cliff to save your family from ruin (estimated cost of a full series of anti-venom $210,000).

    I know of a young family with company provided medical insurance. They had a baby. Insurance company said deductible is $2000. Per person. Times THREE! It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

  • If you get bitten by a rattlesnake, you should throw yourself off the nearest cliff to save your family from ruin (estimated cost of a full series of anti-venom $210,000).

    Personal experience in similar case in horrible communist medicine - all free.

    Thing that calitalist medicine is - immoral system that also break souls of medicine workers and produce tons of parasites around, like insurance companies.

  • It would also be free in Canada, New Zealand, Australia, UK, most of Europe (all?)

    And, in the USA for ex-military and other federal workers. Of course these beneficiaries are highly protective of their privileged health care status, so as long as a political party protects those rights they will vote for just about any clown.

  • Free = taxpayers pay.

    As I live in Norway the general taxation percentage is between 50 and 70 per cent after every tax is paid.

  • @EspenB

    No, free means that society uses existing resources and providing them to members are they are required.

    As I live in Norway the general taxation percentage is between 50 and 70 per cent after every tax is paid.

    Norway could eliminate all taxes, if not their gaz/oil funds that send to finance prosperity US and EU.

    So you live in simple exhibition like colony, with lot of resources (that come slowly to an end).

  • @kinvermark

    210.000 USD? I found a price example here of about 14.000 USD for a single vial. Do you need 15 vials in a typical case?

    "Finally, over 70 percent of the cost — responsible for most of the "sticker shock" you see in so many stories about envenomation care — comes from hospital markups that are used as instruments in negotiation with insurance providers. Depending on the hospital and the insurer, some percentage of this amount later gets discounted during the final payment process."

    ""It's a markup intended to be discounted back down," Boyer explained in an interview. But if you don't have insurance? The negotiating is all on you. And if you happen to have a high deductible for medications, you have to cough up the deductible amount, which can add up to thousands of dollars."

    "According to Boyer's model, a single vial of antivenom that would cost more than $14,000 in the United States would cost $100 to $200 in Mexico. Same medicine. Same manufacturer. But a totally different pharmaceutical market."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/09/the-crazy-reason-it-costs-14000-to-treat-a-snakebite-with-14-medicine/

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    The nowegian gaz/oil funds are all needed to pay for the future pensions for people employed by the governement.

  • @EspenB

    You understand that such things never work?

    You can build industry that will make stuff they need, you can make food production that will make them food, but no zeroes in database will do it.

    Let me explain that such funds are.

    Suppose you sell one barrel of oil for $100 to US company.

    But US order transaction to work as follows - you get your $25-30 and all else just adds to your nice fund account in US bank. From the start it is designed such that you will never be able to convert this number to real things.

    It cab be called national fund, stabilization fund, differs by country.

    But the best it can do is "save" banking system by doing few virtual transactions and leaving all money in original place.

    Just stop thinking about trade in the terms of money, think about this in the terms of real goods to real goods exchange.