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GH5 - possible hack to record RAW?
  • bootstrap10bootstrap10

    does anyone know of a hack that could possibly make the GH5S record internally in RAW? or is it that the processor will just never be powerful enough? or for some other reason. i ask in part because the new kinefinity terra 4K (http://www.kinefinity.com/terra/?lang=en) is reputed to use the same sensor as the GH5S and the Terra can record in RAW.

  • 22 Replies sorted by
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @bootstrap10

    Most probably not. With like 98% probability.

    Sensor has little to do with it.

  • eatstoomuchjameatstoomuchjam

    Good news - the GH5s already gives you an option to shoot 400 megabit all-I in 10-bit with vlog-l. For about 99% of scenes, that will be about as good as shooting raw, but with smaller file sizes (also, the 150 megabit long gop is also really good).

  • bootstrap10bootstrap10

    @vitaly - yes, i am sure you right, but it was worth asking. the GH6 doesn't sound like it is going in the direction of raw or 444 at all, which is disappointing (if i am correct). @eatstoomuchjam - i have been using the vlog 422 400mb all-i extensively and i hope to do some tests against the kinefinity terra 4k raw very soon, so i will be able to see whether having raw from the same sensor in a different box makes the key any easier or better to pull. in the end, only a practical test counts. i will also be able to compare the noise from the different channels.

  • Ralph_BRalph_B

    The real solution is to buy the Blackmagic 4k Pocket camera when it comes out (hopefully) in September. It's a micro 4/3 camera that will record 4k RAW up to 60P internally and externally.

  • endotoxicendotoxic

    Kinefity, blackmagic, Panasonic, z cam. All using the same Sony starvis sensor. Spect nothing from Panasonic. It is what it is.

  • tonalttonalt

    Everything is possible. Unfortunately nobody is hacking it.

  • eatstoomuchjameatstoomuchjam

    I'll look forward to seeing the results of your testing of vlog all-i vs kinefinity raw! I will be happy to be proven wrong if kinefinity raw is of much higher quality than panasonic's all-i! :)

  • bootstrap10bootstrap10

    @Ralph_B i am keenly awaiting the new BMD 4K PC. only two points: 1) as yet i have not managed to find a single frame of demo footage from the camera, which i find a bit strange, and 2) BMD don't always quite hit their camera delivery deadlines (though since they are using the sony sensor, maybe they won't have so many sensor issues), thus, i am not expecting the camera to be available for delivery before xmas, though i would be very happy for everyone if it were.
    @endotoxic the Z Cam E2 is apparently due to start shipping in July. it doesn't appear to offer raw and its focus seems to be on 120fps, which is great for some people, but not the main issue for shooting cinema fiction. i would like to know whether the camera shoots log (cf the terra 4k shoots only log). the idea of an SDK is good. it will costs less than a GH5S, though obviously it will require some kind of viewing screen. it will be very interesting to see how the E2 goes. some E1 users sounded less than enthusiastic about the E1, but that doesn't mean that the E2 won't be a lot better.
    @eatstoomuchjam yes, maybe there won't be enough difference to make it worthwhile. in theory, there should be quite a difference - i hope to be able to make the footage available for download so that anyone can test it if they would like to.
    @tonalt perhaps it is just that there is little room for codec improvement in the GH5/S given the processing power in the camera.

  • IronFilmIronFilm

    @bootstrap10 if you look around there is plenty of demo samples which have leaked out of the BMPCC4K. Additionally BMD has in recent years done much much better at getting closer to hitting their target shipment dates for new cameras.

  • markr041markr041

    What do we know about the color gamut of these two forthcoming cameras? Is it strictly REC709? If so, no way to produce HDR videos?

  • bootstrap10bootstrap10

    @markr041 i don't know whether this begins to answer your question, but the terra 4K records in log only, and apparently the arri log curve is a very close fit. i tried the kinefinity LUT in a Fusion pipeline and found it to be useless. however, according to ProAV, the importers of Kinefinity in the UK, Kinefinity are highly responsive to requests and problems, so colour gamut and other questions may get helpful answers in due course.

  • bootstrap10bootstrap10

    @IronFilm - after a few minutes further searching, this was all i could come up with:

    11 seconds and running at 12fps. if you have even one link that that is better than this, i would be most grateful if you would share it! also, if there is a site that has some raw footage to download that would be excellent.

  • Ralph_BRalph_B

    FWIW, I saw the Blackmagic 4K Pocket live at Cinegear on a 4K monitor and the picture was excellent. I already put my pre-order in. I don't think anybody is going to be disappointed with the picture quality. The above clip seems a little soft compared to what I saw.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    Ditto what @Ralph_B says. Blackmagic 4K Pocket for raw.

  • endotoxicendotoxic

    Raw is Like carrying rock dishes and utilery to a camping, having cerámics or plástics, even aluminum is better.

    Raw is rock solid but heavy.

    Good comprensión is very good indeed like light cerámics.

  • bootstrap10bootstrap10

    raw creates huge files and workflow problems it is true, but for pulling a really good key, i would like to be able to see what the difference is between the various possibilities of raw, 444, 422, 12 bit, 10 bit, 8 bit and various kinds of compression. this will take time, but some reference raw material will be very helpful, even if we end up sticking with the GH5S and AVC all-I 10bit 422. if this combination is good enough (for cinema level keys), i shall be delighted, but the pundits say it will not be. i hope to find out soon whether they are right or not.

  • eatstoomuchjameatstoomuchjam

    If you find the internal codec(s) on the camera insufficient for color keying, you might want to experiment with external output to a ninja inferno.

  • meemee

    IMHO, either GH6 is going to be the next intermediate like a GH3 between real models, or it is going to be a big surprise for everyone. There is some interesting behavior around the camera scene in Tokyo at the moment. I think each company has it's eyes on the prize for the next big round. Will be very interesting to see how close in step they are with each other.

  • filthyfilthy

    Curious what added benefit you get from going to an external recorder with GH5? Doesn't it already offer 422 10bit internally? Is more really needed to pull a clean key? Seems like lighting would make a bigger difference than 12bit RAW.

  • eatstoomuchjameatstoomuchjam

    Depending on the external recorder you use, you could record with a lossless codec (cinemadng) or prores (probably not a huge difference from the internal all-i, but I don't do a lot of keying so maybe it's a bigger difference than I expect), but also 4kp60 is only 4:2:0 8-bit internally and you can record it as 10-bit 4:2:2 with an external recorder.

  • mrbillmrbill

    422 10-bit properly lit cso footage is pretty good for keying

  • bbcellobbcello

    I bet you're excited to hear the news on GH5s getting the external prores raw support... its a suspicion I've had for a while but somehow Panny just acts way late on things to push new hardware. Most GH5s users have already moved on... If braw is so similiar in bitrate i'd imagine itd be possible as well.

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