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Making one's own music
  • Maybe my next item to buy should be an electronic acoustic guitar instead of another lens. Sooner or later we might need to make our own music as it might become forbidden to have licensed music in background even if it's purchased from iTunes.
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  • If politicians continue their current course I think that best investment will be to get collection like this
    http://www.akeron-lich.narod.ru/magic/music/Funeral.htm
    Will be suitable for so many cases...
  • erm... isn't that forbidden already? - like - for many, many years? As long as it's not royalty-free, you're not allowed to distribute it.
  • Hi everyone!

    My first post at this forum.

    I already knew of Vitaly (beacuse of eoshd.com and a Documentary I saw about the programmed obsolescence), but I've arrived here from that terrific interview at 43rumors. What a rockstar is Vitaly! :D

    There's some nice copyleft music here: http://www.jamendo.com/

    But, making your own is always a good option. Your final piece will be even more personal :-)

    Greetings!
  • @zareone +1

    I agree (but then I would, as a musician)! Make your own pictures. Make your own music. Why do one, and not the other? Do both!
  • You don't have to.. Just use music from:

    http://www.jamendo.com/en/ (as zareone mentioned) or http://incompetech.com/m/c/royalty-free/

    Be sure to read the enclosed licences, though. I've been in contact with the IFPI/Teosto here in Finland and to license a popular song to the background of your short and free original video trailer (distributed via Vimeo/YouTube) will cost you around 300-500 euros per song :D Not worth it.

    Jamendo has some GREAT music! I used one by a Finnish artist Matti Paalanen in my video
  • ...hey - and use stock pictures too :-)

    Just kidding...
  • Not such a joke. Most of the money being made in the "music" business these days doesn't involve any original music at all. What's to keep movies from following? I could colorize and re-edit Citizen Kane to make it edgier - maybe add some hand-held shake. Or how about re-doing Days of Heaven, or The Last Emperor? Even better, I could re-edit Blade Runner. Oh, wait, Ridley Scott is already on it - for the 4th time. At least it's his own work.

    Chris
  • In fact I can think of lots of "famous" films that can't be any good. They don't use shallow DOF, underexposure, hand-held shake, or any other technique that defines competence according to what I read today. These idiots relied on lighting and composition - what a joke! Clearly you could make a fortune improving these films - like Beauty and the Beast by Cocteau, Metropolis, Gone with the Wind, Apocalypse Now, everything in Psycho except the shower scene, anything by Kubrick or Scorsese - the list goes on and on.

    You may think I'm kidding - but your kids won't see a joke anywhere in there - mark my words.

    Chris
  • JACK OF ALL TRADES, MASTER OF NONE.
  • Don't touch to Days of Heaven. I'm shooting a tribute to Malick/Almendros work (another way - artistic way!- to say "don't have bucks to add extra lights").

    - Shallow dof : check (kinda : no money for the Nokton)
    - hand-held shake : check ! (well... neither for steady/rig/tripod of course).
    - my secret weapon : only use the unfocused part of your footage. If someone ask : it's a good trick to smooth the motion. Real reason : do you think I saved some for an EVF with peaking feature ?
    - Finally, I'm launching a sound dogma : artificial, sophisticated, "clean" sound from hollywood and all other motherfuckers wannabe artist is a crime against any serious kind of creation. The creation process have to appear in some way for the public (cause he's not dumb) : so in camera sound always used to hear the talent AND the crew (hum... myself) working to achieve a masterpiece. Yeah, right, no money for that...

    I mark your words Chris... ah fortune!...
  • @Stefanos: I agree, not everybody can be a DaVinci and master all the arts. We don't have the time to learn so MANY things.

    But, on the other side, I think music for picture doesn't always need to be a masterpiece by itself, but suport the image it accompanies. For example, listen to David Julyan soundtracks to Memento, The Prestige... they are not Rachmaninov like pieces, but they fit the overall athmosphere of the film quite well IMHO.

    Other option you have is to seek for collaboration. After all, filmmaking is a collaborative work! Sure there's some amateur music composer (or noisemaker, like me) willing to help you out with your project (I'm not offering my services hehehe, just making a point). I like every aspect of filmmaking / media creation, and would love to play with every aspect of it, but, as you say, if I do, I won't be good at any of them. Maybe I won't even concentrating in just one... :D
  • @zareone A lot of wisdom there and I totally agree on the quality of music for images -it doesn't have to be a stand-alone masterpiece because its job is to support, not distract. Although I can play the harp and do so professionally, it probably wouldn't be appropriate (except as a random texture, perhaps) to support a scene in a video. However, I've done a huge amount of music for radio drama and live theatre, and to be honest, I reckon now the technology is good enough for anyone to have a go and explore (just as we are doing with pictures). You can do some amazing stuff just using an iPod app like Trope. Thumbjam (also iPod) is an amazing interface whether you're a musician or not, and the sample quality is wonderful. I've even used it to contol PC music sequencing via wifi MIDI.

    Simple is often good. I find it disappointing to see music used in a really arbitrary way in too many videos, and that's lazy and a missed opportunity. Often it's used instead of really nicely recorded commentary / location sound. But if you really believe music is the answer, I would urge anyone to make your own. That scene with a small child running around could have happy or sinister music, and it would change the meaning of what you see. It's another way of creating an emotional response.
  • @cbrandin Love it! Those directors commentaries you see on DVDs. Much more fun to just have your own as part of the location sound, so you get snippets of "Why won't that f...ing thing focus" etc! And I bet you're right - kids will think this is all perfectly rational!
  • @Mark_the_Harp, thanks for the heads up! I didn't know the existence of Trope and Thumbjam.

    Regarding the harp, I love it! It's one of the main instruments I used here:
    (the film is not mine, I just made the "music" for a local soundtrack contest)

    The repetitive nature of the "music" is because the repetitive nature of the film itself (and maybe because of the influence of electronic music in my life, hehehe)

    I'm sure you, as a harp player, could make a real sounding harp mockup using samples, because you know how it's played. I just throw the notes I want it to play, but it sounds really mechanic.

    I'm planning on making a short film. The story is kinda a horror / thriller one. Of course I'll make the "music" / sound design myself. And, of course, it will surely be a piece of shit. But hey, it's just a matter of keeping trying and improving. And one day, something good could arrive ;-)

    I prefer the collaborative or DIY approaches to "library" or stock music. I'm tired of hearing Inception and TRON Legacy soundtracks even on TV realities. Most of the time, the music has NOTHING to do with what's happening in the program. I think it's simply that the music editor likes that theme, and uses it. Seems like everything has to be mixed with epic music. Even if you're seeing some childs playing in the beach, they put the latest epic blockbuster soundtrack to the images... WTF!??



  • Wow, posting a YouTube link, makes the video itself to appear on the post. A bit intrusive maybe?
  • @zareone Re your last sentence about blockbuster soundtracks, I think it's just that most people don't think too hard, and that music is just "stuff" you slap over the top of pictures. But you know that and I know that...!

    Making music is a valuable thing to do because it forces you to think about sequences in time (being a time-based medium) just like video is. I have a theory from a lot of the video I'm seeing since the start of the DSLR revolution, that because some DSLR users are stills photographers who've come over to the dark side, they tend to think in static images rather than sequences (ie, the shots themselves are important, rather than the relationship between shots and the flow of the edit). Just a personal observation but if it's true, then these same people may think of music as a "statement" rather than as a process in time. Then they discover that by putting music over a series of disconnected shots, it somehow ties it together into a coherent whole. Except, of course, it doesn't, it's just bad video with inappropriate music and no relationship between the two - the shots are not informed by the music or vice versa. You can see how it happens, and it has a horrible sort of car-crash inevitability to it, but it still gets my goat. Rant over!!
  • BTW there's a brilliant bit of software which I've used a few times for creating midi music / miked sound effects / recorded dialogue to video, because I was struggling to do midi using my current software, and the alternatives were over-complicated midi sequencers.

    This software is called Reaper and it's free to try. Definitely worth a go - the trial is fully-featured, and then the license is very reasonable. Hell even I paid for one, cheap though I am!

    Reaper takes a bit of getting to know because after a while you think "is this it", then you realise you can add limitless midi / audio channels / effects. You can do automated mixdowns, which for me is absolutely crucial for good quality sound production. To work with video, you simply add a video window and an audio guide track, and you can create some amazing audio productions which you can then reimport into your video editor to create a final version. It's brilliant. Have a look!

    http://www.reaper.fm/
  • Anything knows software that makes mood music by itself?
    You set the mood, adjust tempo, set performers type and adjust all this (or switch to any rpeset with soft transition) in realtime looking on actual footage.
    I want something like it :-)
  • Nice additions Mark.

    Here I go: (mostly free and/or Open Source soft)

    MUSE Score: Open Source (and free) music notation: http://musescore.org/en
    Aria Maestosa: Open Source (and free) MIDI tracker / editor: http://ariamaestosa.sourceforge.net/
    Ardour Open Source (and free) MIDI and Audio sequencer for MacOS / Linux http://ardour.org/
    Hydrogen, for Linux, MacOSX and Windows: http://www.hydrogen-music.org/hcms/
    Linux Sampler: http://www.linuxsampler.org/ (don't let the name fool you, it works on Win / Mac too)


    I'll stop here for now. We could make a shared Google doc, and list there affordable solutions for music making ;-)

    If there's some interest, I'll start with it.
  • @zareone Nice to have these - didn't know any of them. I think your reply was in response to mine rather than Vitaliy so this is my reply to Vitaliy...

    @Vitaliy That would be cool! I know there are some ambient sound creators for ipod which do that - you set the mood at the start. But what you're asking for is something that you can control, with an easy interface, and that's responsive but in a controlled way, in real time.

    That's a really good idea. If something like this doesn't exist, then there's a big gap in the market for someone to create something like that. In my experience there are things that "nearly" do what you're asking. Reactable for ipod/ipad can do something like this, or Trope can. With Trope you draw on a screen and the music changes slowly in reaction to your drawings. Beautiful sounds, but not immediate, and limited to "ambient"-type music.

    I'd do a search around the app store but my wife's taken my iPod today (coincidentally to this topic, she's in Bristol UK, having a conversation with a team about developing a real-time musical interface for use by young children) so I can't look up what's available. But a lot of exciting developments seem to be happening on these mobile touch-devices.

    I've also done something where a webcam feeds an XY midi controller and you can leap around the room and create sounds in real time. Probably not so practical though!

    It's a fantastic idea, Vitaliy. Much more positive than my rant!
  • @Mark_the_Harp yes my previous response was for you.

    @Vitaly I don't know about any software that does this. But it would be nice. I have found this instead:

    http://ghostly.com/discovery/play (it doesn't make the the music, but selects it from their database)

    The problem is that, even if it this app existed and could make some nice music for you, one of the reasons to compose music FOR the picture, is to adapt to it. I mean, hitting the spots, transitions, elipsis.

    Sometimes you want to play the drama, enhance it, dismiss it, or play through it. Sometimes you compose for the feelings of a character, sometimes for the action...

    Of course, some directors like Scorsese and Tarantino have put exisiting music to their films with great success.

    And, something important that is forgotten nowadays: SILENCE. Do not put music unless it's neccessary. Have you seen "No Country For Old Men"? Did you enjoy the soundtrack? :D
    There's no need to have music playing all the time.
  • The Ghostly one is fun!

    @Vitaliy http://lab.andre-michelle.com/tonematrix will produce little sequences of sounds, but limited to one sound. Not quite what you're after unless of course you create the sound first and then shoot and edit inspired by the music!

    The Game world is the place for rich, seamless, shifting music tied to action, and there's a lot of interesting development going on. I'll see if I can find anything that does what you were asking about - "real-time generative music" seems to be a good bunch of words to search on! But the reason I'm keen on the ipod is that multitouch interfaces would be great for what you're asking.
  • I am ok if this software will just use special indexed few terabate database of mp3 files :-)
    And will be able to do realtime morph and retiming :-)
  • I phoned my wife, who's in a meeting with a generative music expert, to ask her about your earlier request, so she might have some ideas from him when she gets back.

    Your last one is probably no more difficult than the "How can I get 1000fps video at 1Tb/second on a class 2 SD card" type of thing!!