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Engels on free market
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    “Darwin did not know what a bitter satire he wrote on mankind ... when he showed that free competition, the struggle for existence, which the economists celebrate as the highest historical achievement, is the normal state of the animal kingdom. Only conscious organization of social production, in which production and distribution are carried on in a planned way, can lift mankind above the rest of the animal.”

    :-)

  • 13 Replies sorted by
  • kurthkurth

    it's effectivity...depends on who's doing the planning !

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    depends on who's doing the planning !

    It depends on whole system. Point is, planning makes smart people different, gives advantage.

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @VK Could you elaborate on your thoughts about economic planning. How do you visualize this working? (What things are planned and what aren't? ) I'm open for discussion and have no bias preference for "free markets" vs "planned economy"...my criteria for judging is what yields best result.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Could you elaborate on your thoughts about economic planning. How do you visualize this working? (What things are planned and what aren't? ) I'm open for discussion and have no bias preference for "free markets" vs "planned economy"...my criteria for judging is what yields best result.

    Specific big projects planning perfect work is known, as well as small family or small business like things. It works well and you can find lots of books on it.

    Planning issue is that it tends to have problems with scale and large amount of individuals with their strange personal ideas. Sometimes you can guide them, sometimes not.

    I'll write my personal approach to planning (I call it "reverse planning") soon, it is very different to everyone I know from books. But it needs more time and separate post.

  • firstbasefirstbase

    Yikes!

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @VK Thanks. Please do post your ideas on "reverse planning" once prepared - I'd definitely be interested in reading.

  • gamebgameb

    @VK "Point is, planning makes smart people different, gives advantage." (That might be true on short minded terms like effectivity) :)) And then comes the smart one who thinks he is smart. When somebody thinks, he is smart, it is already his first declaration of his stupidity. Chaos and coincidence is much better - more human, more fun, more creative, more everything. Planning is for for narrow minded people who don't have the balls and intelligence to confront positively what life can bring to you by coincidence. The problem of our system is exactly this. It is totally controlled. And the worst of all, is that people believe that nothing can be changed.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Planning is for for narrow minded people who don't have the balls and intelligence to confront positively what life can bring to you by coincidence.

    LOL. Somehow all idiots I saw had serious issues with exactly planning part.

    And, strangely, nothing good happened with them by accident :-)

  • gamebgameb

    Because they were idiots, you just said it. Only them would need "exactly planning". Only them would try to do "exactly planning". By the way....: how did you recognise, they were idiots, how did you manage to distinguish them from non-idiots? Is there an instruction book?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    By the way....: how did you recognise, they were idiots, how did you manage to distinguish them from non-idiots? Is there an instruction book?

    I think this discussion is for other topic, as well as argumentation level here is really low.

    I suggest to you to get some books on animal behavior and be stunned to know how all more advanced animals plan things (even very simple animals make plans :-) ). Humans have most complex brains, hence they build most complex mind models (inside their head) and also make longest and very complex plans.

  • gamebgameb

    Well, it was not me who used the term "idiots" in the first place, which I agree is a very lo argumentation level :))

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    It was just right term :-) Upon special request I can call them "mentally challenged".

  • wordsofpeacewordsofpeace

    There is a book by Ouspensky, written maybe over 50 years ago. He described how being conscious in our efforts, can work to our advantage and development. He describes how the normal is for an individual to start an effort in a conscious way but through an inability to sustain that consciousness, the effort devolves to a lower level. Maintaining a conscious effort at key levels created opportunities for an individual to evolve higher.

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