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Decent & affordable audio solution for the GH3 / G6. Shure SM58? Or a shotgun?
  • Hi,

    I shoot a lot of weddings and I have to find an affordable solution to record the speaker during the ceremony. At first I was considering a shotgun mic as I know that it works well from experience. But now I was thinking about other options. What about a dynamic mic like a Shure SM58, going in directly into the GH3 / G6? Would the signal be 'hot' enough? Or wouldn't that really work out? Of course we would place the mic close to the speaker. I also have a Zoom R8 multitrack recorder that works on batteries. I'm sure it would sound great with the SM58 into the Zoom R8, but would be more of a hassle.

    Anyone has experience with plugging in a dynamic mic directly into a GH3 / GH4 / G6? And how does it sound? Other options?

  • 20 Replies sorted by
  • Get a line out feed from the DJ/Speaker area and feed it to a little portable recorder like a zoom/tascam device. I wouldn't advice plugging a dynamic mic into a camera like these... it'll be pretty noisey among other things.

  • Thanks Kingmixer.

    Why would it be noisy? I've plugged in a Sennheiser shotgun mic directly into the G6 / GH3 before with great results. Just wondering if a SM58 could give me similar results, for less money or is it completely different?

  • It's a completely different kind of mic with a different pickup pattern. I think dynamic mics also have a worse signal/noise ratio than condensers

  • A dynamic mic like an SM58 has significantly lower sensitivity than a condenser like the Sennheiser. This requires more gain from the camera preamp which increases the self-noise from the camera audio circuitry.

    Fran

  • A dynamic mic like an SM58 has significantly lower sensitivity than a condenser like the Sennheiser. This requires more gain from the camera preamp which increases the self-noise from the camera audio circuitry.

    Yep, but such dynamic mike in real situation will be much closer to sound source. If you can have mike in the frame (documentary and such) just do it with dynamic mike (and also dynamic mike near your mouth if you need second mike for questions).

  • @Stab if you already have an SM58 use that with the R8 and sync in your NLE. The 58 is directional and sounds great on speech. This way you don't have to worry about any cable between mic and camera.

    If you've yet to chose then a condenser makes more sense, something like an NTG2A. I'd still use that with the R8 as well.

    If you have a GoPro available they make great speech pickups with the added bonus of an extra angle to cut between.

  • I don't think you can use an SM58 for any sort of video work. You have to have it 6" or less from your mouth for it to pick up properly. It's really designed for singing into right at your mouth. At 2 feet has zero base response and sounds like you're talking into a tin can.

    Another crazy option is to check out some of the stealth binaural recording setups you can get from www.soundprofessionals.com There might be some small stereo mics you could setup on an iPod or some such device right on the table in front of the folks giving the speeches. They can be hidden in the flowers right in front of the folks and work pretty well. Just need to agree on a location for all the toasts and speeches to take place ahead of time. I have a DPA 4061 lavalier mic I run through a transformer into my H4n all the time. It works great clipped into the flowers. My original setup like that was a Sound Pros battery box with built in stereo mics going into a vintage Archos Jukebox recorder / mp3 player.

    Anyway, that's my take on the SM58.

    Cheers, Pete

  • @andyharris I've never fooled with the audio on any of my go pros Andy...how are you setting it up?

  • @stab

    An SM58 can be used on camera, but it's output at 1.85mv is low. Not an ideal situation. A much better choice is an AKG D5. This is a modern, super-cardioid dynamic mic with an output of 2.6 mv. The use of neodymium magnets enables it to have this high output, and it makes a huge difference. I use it on my GH2 with excellent results.

    I have a friend who has an $800 Sennheiser shotgun (don't know the model number) and we did a shootout between the two mics. Long story short, he packed away the Sennheiser and bought an AKG D5. The sound is superior in every respect - better isolation of the voice and suppression of the background noise - better quality of the voice, it sounds like what you would get in a recording studio. This is a great mic at a dirt cheap price. Just be aware that you'll need to put it in a shock mount.

  • The AKG D5 dynamic mic is indeed notable for its relatively high output level of 2.6 mv. But compared to the 10-30 mv range of a condensor mic, the D5 is more than 10db lower in volume. To use a dynamic mic with a camera, however, you need at the very least a balanced low-to-high impedance transformer like this one:

    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002IAJ2O/?tag=dlevi-20

    If you connect a dynamic mic directly to a camera, you will lose its best feature: immunity to hum due to its balanced, low-impedance output. That's why pro camcorders use XLR input jacks.

  • If you connect a dynamic mic directly to a camera, you will lose its best feature: immunity to hum due to its balanced, low-impedance output. That's why pro camcorders use XLR input jacks.

    In practice you do not lose anything, if you are not making concert with long cables and lots of equipment.

    For short cable lengths any balanced cables (like making interviews with camera directly before and such) is not really needed. In high end audio lots of criminals are promoting balanced connections to any place they could charging huge extra.

    I want to repeat - if you are making videos from noise places like exhibitions, meetings your best bet is two dynamic mikes - one on head small mike for you (or interviewer if you are just cameraman, but in this case you can use only one mike) and another usual dynamic mike for people to answer to :-). Such thing works, work good and forget about all this SNR figures as mike placement, noise due to handling and durability here are much more important.

  • @Vitaliy-Kiselev

    In high end audio lots of criminals are promoting balanced connections to any place they could charging huge extra.

    LOLOLOL, keep it classy

  • LOLOLOL, keep it classy

    I just have no other term for this guys. In Pro equipment balanced connections are present for a reason. This guys promote them for 40cm interconnects and for headphones. What for?

  • For headphones and short cables, yeah, that's pointless. For unbalanced high-impedance inputs, though, a matching transformer (at the pre-amp side) will eliminate any potential hum and boost the mic's low-impedance output, improving signal-to-noise ratio.

    One situation where I'd avoid using a Rode or Audio-Technica condensor is at an event with amplified music. These type of mics are great for recording natural sounds and conversations, but they can distort badly when subjected to loud sounds. That's where dynamic stage mics are a better choice, with max sound pressure level ratings over 140 db.

  • Thanks guys! Lots of good recommendations here. I will definately check out the AKG D5.

    There is one mic which caught my eye, but it is actually over budget... The Shure VP83F.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/966010-REG/shure_vp83f_condenser_shotgun_mic.html

    It's interesting to me because it seems to be a better quality mic than the Rode Videomic Pro and has a built-in WAV recorder! So I could just place it wherever I want and record on a SD card. And whenever I need synced audio, I can just plug it in the camera with an extension cable and use it close to the speaker.

    Would that work out? Or will extension cables make it much worse? Too bad it is 300 Euro's in my country. The AKG D5 can be had for 85 Euro's...

    Ralph_B, when you plug-in the AKG D5 into the GH2, how much do you need to pump up the gain on the camera? How 'strong' is the signal?

    Thanks!!

  • @stab

    I set the GH2 gain at max, but I'm not sure how that would compare to the GH3.

    I would definitely stay away from the Shure VP83F. I bought the non-recorder version, and I can tell you unequivocally that it's a terrible mic. The sound is thin and scratchy. I couldn't believe it. It's not at all what you'd expect from Shure. I sent it back promptly.

    I have the original Rode Videomic and it's a universe better than the Shure VP (but not as good as the D5).

  • Thanks Ralph.

    That's strange because many reviewers state that the Shure should sound better than the Rode... Last question about your D5. At what distance do you usually position it from the speaker? And do you put anything (mixer / transformer) between the mic and the camera?

    Thanks!

  • There's no fixed distance. As with any mic, you try to get as close to the sound source as possible. One of the nice things about the D5 is that it still produces high quality sound when it's positioned some distance from the sound source.

    I don't use any transformer - just a simple XLR to mini plug cable.

  • Alright Ralph. I have no opportunity to try it out but I'm gonna go with your recommendations :D

    I'm ordering the D5 now with a Klotz AUXMF0300 XLR 3p female - mini jack cable. It supposedly transforms the mono signal to a stereo signal to be used for camcorders etc. Should be perfect then right? The GH3 should have a stereo 3.5mm input jack.

    And with a normal XLR-XLR cable I can use it with the Zoom R8 that I have.

    Will let you know how it sounds :)

  • @peternap

    Usually I use the GoPro Audio just for sync, but it helped me on a wedding where I simply used a bit of blu-tack against a sign on the top table. The audio was cleaner than the other two cameras and a H4N with a NTG2A, just because it was much closer to the people and had less of the PA system sound.

    I was surprised that it was that good, usually GoPro are on the move on in cases so its all wind rush an rumble!