Better stay on topic people. Gay people were born gay for ages, even when there was no mass media

@FrankGlencairn the status quo for these things was that people had to be ashamed, and 2nd class citizens because of it. to be 'proud' is just them standing up and saying 'no, i'm not ashamed' etc.

@vitaliy i find your reference to pedophilia a little astounding. pedophilia is illegal to protect the child. it is illegal to have a picture (of a sexual nature) of a child on your phone because it means that child was exploited in generating the picture. This argument is irrelevant. The right homosexuals are after is a right to have a relationship between two consenting adults. if acts between adults occur (gay or straight) and one party isn't consenting, regardless of age, then it again becomes illegal (rape).

@vitaliy because we should protect children over the right to have freedom of expression. i guess you don't have any kids. Your pedophile argument is more akin to saying "if i want to kill people i should be allowed to, what the hell's wrong with that - it's what i want to do." the homosexual argument is one of CONSENTING ADULTS. Your repeated quote of research that says "number of gay couples directly correlate only to media politics in the country" doesn't prove anything about brainwashing, my god. Most likely if media are discussing it (good or bad) you are in a country where it is easier to come out.

Wow this whole conversation is sad. And terrifying.

Especially this part :" If you spent some time researching history you'll find strange thing. Most people had quite logical reason to hate jews due to things they did."

On the one hand I don't even see how this posts have anything to do with this website. And with rationality and intelligence on the other.

@neosushi, look at my avatar, i feel the same

@neosushi

Especially this part :" If you spent some time researching history you'll find strange thing. Most people had quite logical reason to hate jews due to things they did."

What do you know about history of jews?
Reasons why they had been punished under different rulers in different countries?

Goal of my words is to make you wish to get a book and read it. Not to repeat me here words about tolerance you just heard from your TV or newspaper.

On the one hand I don't even see how this posts have anything to do with this website. And with rationality and intelligence on the other.

LOL. You seems to be new here. PV blog is always such. Made to force your little gray cells to do that they are supposed to do, but are not doing usually - think.

Do not use emotions? homosexuals fighting to right to flush brains of your sister using mass media and turn her into lesbian? Sad, very sad, and yes those are emotions

Many people like myself never had any problem with gay people until they started advocating reverse discrimination and retribution. We should all be free to express ourselves as we choose in a free society. Unfortunately that isn't the case when the gay media-mafia decides to come after you under the familiar mantra of "social justice."

Phil Robertson got savaged when he said he personally didn't find male-on-male sex to be very appealing. What if he had said he didn't find it appealing to eat gluttonous amounts of food like that fat guy on the food network? Would there have been similar outcry for his lack of acceptance of a fat TV personality? People should not expect their personal behavior to be sacrosanct and a part of the personal desires of every person on the planet. It's never going to happen.

Additionally, Brendan Eich of Mozilla was "revealed" to have supported Proposition 8 which was actually passed by more than 52% of voters in the state of California in 2008. Still, the gay lobby decided it was time to make an example of someone with mafia-like tactics in order to try and strike fear into ALL technology executives in silicon valley.

Many from the gay community have since come out and said these scorched-earth tactics are not helping gay acceptance - and I agree with that. People tend to take notice when advocacy groups start holding guns to people's heads and demanding their loyalty. It doesn't make friends in the long run, rather resentful "subjects."

In my opinion gay acceptance has reached the point where advocacy is no longer necessary and is now mostly used for self-serving publicity reasons. If this Cook announcement is followed up by some new Apple marketing initiative that further embraces the gay community, Tim and Apple's motivation will seem pretty clear, at least to me.

@vitaliy You say your pedophile extreme is made to make me think? research? and to not use emotion? you need to find a better extreme example then :) You cannot invoke people to not use emotion in a discussion like this let alone when you bring in child sex abuse. I will discuss this maturely for as long as i can take it without becoming too depressed, but you cannot ask me to do so without a modicum of emotion. It is what makes us human.

i apologize if i was too personal, but i think if you are going to suggest that someone who defends homosexuality by extension should defend pedophilia (even if just playing devil's advocate), then i think you should be thick skinned enough to deal with someone saying 'i guess you don't have any kids'! If you do, then you'd understand ;) But, you're right, should have kept that out of it.

You are saying that the homosexuals didn't think about it until media told them. this is ''one' way of looking at the correlation, certainly not 'the only' way. and i don't agree with it. i certainly didn't prove your statement. I think some are thinking about it, they are just terrified to publicly act on it, others repress it, which is sad but for some maybe ultimately doesn't really affect them.

I understand your religion/god argument as it relates to religion/god, i use it many times myself. I don't really understand how it relates here. sorry if i'm missing something obvious.

I am not versed in Dostoyevsky, but at least in C&P wasn't the right to kill argument just a very individual one in someone who thought they were above society? i think we are far from the original argument here, and this tangent isn't one i can knowledgeably argue about.

Ok, you have to tell me how to make the blue highlights :)

'if pedophile is defined by some natural phenomenon and is born such, we are restricting his right. Same way as gay right where restricted. You think that being pedophile and doing such thing is a crime. But most societies had absolutely same thought toward gay people very short time ago. What makes you think it won't change?'

Understand, but i suppose just disagree fundamentally. Pedophilia may have been 'ok' before but actually no, it was never ok. there was a victim. with homosexuality, i don't believe there is a victim. That's why i don't accept the connection. If you feel (or are arguing) that there are victims if homosexuality is accepted, and that these victims are people who are converted to being gay by media, then i see why you are invoking it to and extent. I just don't agree that people are turned gay by being exposed to it. I believe that being exposed to homosexuality allows them to be who they are.

'What if some parents think (and have some backing facts) that it is media that can make their children into gay or lesbian and want to fight to not allow it? What is the difference?'

see above, but also the difference is that homosexuals shouldn't be discriminated against because of ignorant position of some people.

'Well, I asked about some definition of gay and how it can be determinated if one is such.'

why isn't the definition to be sexually attracted to the same sex?

'As percentage of gay is dependent on the country and media/society politics, almost same as religion.'

I argue it is % of openly gay..

'So, defending gay right arguments (as in case of their oppression they have terrible life and can't come out) become arguments for destroying people life (because same people in other place have perfect family, love their spouse of opposite sex and have big number of children, never even though about being gay or such).'

Understand, but i'd argue that is not enough argument to give in to homophobia. yes, some existing homosexuals may be made to feel bad because it would challenge their repressed feeling, but ultimately don't we want a world where, as the second poster said, no one cares about sexuality? Be openly gay, that is fine, deny it, that is fine, but it is your choice, not a choice society made for you.

Most people are gay because Media tells them they are? (Yes, I know I'm paraphrasing. There are too many paragraphs to even try to quote.) What book would you recommend people read on matters such as these? Mien Kamph?

LOL.

It is astonishing that media can do to unprepared minds. Astonishing. He does not support main media trend (may be even support, but providing opposing arguments - worse for him!) ? Must be like Hitler (also media Hitler, not real one, as history books are for ners!), of course. :-)

But I just ask about fact that show otherwise. I do not tell that it is media only, any sensory input.

why isn't the definition to be sexually attracted to the same sex?

Because it is not definition I asked. I asked to define such quality that they are born with. As attraction to same sex does not mean anything. Can be just perception, may be temporary.

Understand, but i suppose just disagree fundamentally. Pedophilia may have been 'ok' before but actually no, it was never ok. there was a victim. with homosexuality, i don't believe there is a victim. That's why i don't accept the connection. If you feel (or are arguing) that there are victims if homosexuality is accepted, and that these victims are people who are converted to being gay by media, then i see why you are invoking it to and extent. I just don't agree that people are turned gay by being exposed to it. I believe that being exposed to homosexuality allows them to be who they are.

Well, I provided arguments and example with sister. My lesbian sister will never have children. If she was in different place and with different input she will have three. Three people killed just by words.

Btw pedophilia absolutely does not mean rape, you check can laws on it even.

Understand, but i'd argue that is not enough argument to give in to homophobia

Well, no one here defends homophobia (it is so fuzzy thing, btw!). I just show complexity of the thing. Media just want you to believe to simplicity of it and in how any simple solution is good.

If the world was gay that would be the end of human race. Gay is bad for humanity nature. Nowdays being gay is accepted as a cultural thing. Many things are wrong but accepted in this corrupted capitalist world.