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  • kavadnikavadni

    Phew, I feel lucky, as I said I was too lazy to read it all .. not sure what it was.
    And I gonna read it all even though I am curious

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Topic will be cleared soon.

  • stoneystoney

    @kavadni don't you get it? he's a troll. he's not here to listen to you. stop wasting your time.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @aki_hartikainen is banned for one month for not reading warnings.

  • kavadnikavadni

    @aki_hartikainen .. I have no idea what your trying to say .. my point is the footcandles/lumens/lux will be identical.

  • tmcattmcat

    @stonebat -takes note, starts waiting for rockwell to join.

    not to compare the two obviously; Ken knows how cameras work.

  • stoneystoney

    You know Canon EOS-M is coming soon. This site might get bombarded by those retards like @aki_hartikainen. Let's get used to it.

  • aki_hartikainenaki_hartikainen

    @kavadni "take a spot meter reading from each piece of paper .."

    You would get the exposure right for the negatives.

    Next produce same size prints of the different size negatives using the same development. Will the prints still be the same all else being equal? We will be looking at the prints, not the negatives.

  • stoneystoney

    @aki_hartikainen is a noob and a snob. That's all. I don't care what he says.

  • tmcattmcat

    @aki_hartikainen It is totally different and it has already been explained about 50 times.

  • aki_hartikainenaki_hartikainen

    That is not the issue at all. They will be the same because the engineers adjusted the outputs within spesifications. They would not be the same without doing so.

    I would have to adjust brightness if I used a focal reducer if I wanted the same brightness, for example. How is this different from having different crop in the camera?

  • kavadnikavadni

    Um, I am too lazy to read the entire thread ..

    Open the window, let the light in .. Put a piece of white paper 6 inches square and a piece of white paper 3 inches square, in the light .. equidistant from the window .. take a spot meter reading from each piece of paper ..

    There is your answer :)

  • tmcattmcat

    @RRRR Photoshop resizing. thank you!

  • RRRRRRRR

    And again, when talking about enlargers for making copies, you are on thin ice. You are talking about a device which is yet another lens, basically a zoom in this instance. This is quite different from digital scaling. Have you seen your photo getting dimmer/brighter when re-sizing in Photoshop?

  • RRRRRRRR

    Fucking hell, it´s like talking to a log. Original size of a crop sensor is obviously smaller than a full frame sensor, if the sensor is similar in property. You can´t possibly require the smaller image to be rescaled up to the larger! That only has any bearing whatsoever if you actually plan to scale up the image past the original size! In other words, what you plan to use the image for.

    Of course it has merit in a discussion for intended use; but for the discussion on sensor size and light it has no merit whatsoever.

  • tmcattmcat

    @aki_hartikainen but they are the same... Take an image on a 5D with a 50mm at F2.8 and take one with a 25mm f1.4 on a GH2, set the iso to the same value, and tell me which one is brighter.

  • aki_hartikainenaki_hartikainen

    @tmcat "Technology changed too"

    Technologies come and go. It is never a bad idea to try to develop understanding of the principles that technologies are built upon.

  • aki_hartikainenaki_hartikainen

    @RRRR "Who says they have to be of the same size?"

    My monitor, for example.

  • tmcattmcat

    @aki_hartikainen

    You are a luddite now? Technology changed too, and what you're talking about, analog vs digital, has changed quite a bit in the last 30 years...

  • aki_hartikainenaki_hartikainen

    @tmcat "It isn't hard to grasp at all, @aki_hartikainen even constantly brings up these examples himself... For example"

    A 10 watt image is not going to be as bright as 40 watt image. But if you use 40 watts to display a 10 watt image, then they will have the same brightness.

    Not difficult in the least.

  • RRRRRRRR

    "Smaller original will have to be adjusted and enlarged to the same size for viewing. It does not matter whether this enlarging is done optically or electronically."

    For what kind of viewing? A bigger image is a bigger image a smaller image a smaller. It´s up to you to figure out what you use it for. Who says they have to be of the same size? A crop is smaller. Simple.

  • aki_hartikainenaki_hartikainen

    @tmcat "The info is out there, though, for you to find."

    I have seen some of the info and it is not much different from what I would get from this thread. For the most part the enlarging and magnification that is required to match different original sizes is ignored.

    This is a symptom of less capability to understand even simple concepts and principles. Anybody with some first hand experience with dark room and enlargers could relate immediately. But that was 30 years ago. Today it is different, much to my dismay.

  • tmcattmcat

    @RRRR

    Of course a larger sensor collects more light! There is no question of that, however, per square inch / cm / mm or whatever the average light acquisition is the same, if the sensor property is the same. It should not be so hard to grasp?

    It isn't hard to grasp at all, @aki_hartikainen even constantly brings up these examples himself... For example

    If the light collecor is 10 square cm in area and produces brightness/wattage equal to 10 watts, then the output will not become the same brightness as from a 40 square cm area collector that outputs 40 watts.

    He's just missing that the amount per cm sq is equal, as his example would lead one to assume

  • RRRRRRRR

    Of course a larger sensor collects more light! There is no question of that, however, per square inch / cm / mm or whatever the average light acquisition is the same, if the sensor property is the same. It should not be so hard to grasp?

  • aki_hartikainenaki_hartikainen

    @RRRR It does not NEED to be anything. A cropped image is smaller. Period.

    Smaller original will have to be adjusted and enlarged to the same size for viewing. It does not matter whether this enlarging is done optically or electronically.

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