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Driftwood - Experimental Series 2: Low Rider, Cluster v8, V9, Intravenus II, GH3onaGH2, AN, Boom
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  • Quick test outdoor of my nex super cinelux anamorphic 2x mc schneider kreuznach with the Driftwood Apolcalypse now Intravenus hack and canon FD 50mm 1,4.

  • Hello all,

    I've got some issues with AN Cluster 7

    I use CineMode 1080/24p - Smooth -2 -2 -2 -2 with SanDisk Ext Pro 32 GB class 10 95MB/s

    But it always fails after 4 or 5 minutes. Do you know how to fix this issue ?

    Regards, D.

  • hi guys, the new improvements on the new settings are far beyond expectations. at the moment GH2 glows with the work, sweat and the most with the deep thought has been put on it. same wishes to GH3 adventure!.

    my question is how do we make or create crossfire settings? Does copy/paste thing work on an .ini. file? or do we do it by using ptool, could not find info in the forum, but I know in some treat I read the instructions, some how, I could not find it now. Thanks. any help is appreciated. (intravenus for 24p,25p,50i+cluster for 720p+ '444 Sharp2' matrix. cause ı really like Driftwood Cluster v7 'Apocalypse Now' - 6 GOP Nebula '444 Sharp' matrix but nothing beats gop1 in 24p so , I wish ı have intravenus 24p on cluster V7 and V8 that would give the best of both color and motion reading with any Lens.)

  • I'm very happy with the GOP6 444Soft matrix, low light is sharper, better grain, and less macroblocking than I have seen on other settings. I'm going to edit up a few clips from this show after I get a friends wedding video done, just a raw preview:

  • Just finished a small interview of someone that a couple people might know :) Anyways, it was shot with AN Nebula 6, 1080 24P with my Tokina 28-70 2.6-2.8 lens at 1/40 shutter. ISO 640. I had a wrong call time and showed up late with only enough time to set up two kinos at 3200k. Not very ideal but the talent only had a small amount of time. Wish I could have lit the background because it was awesome!! It's underexposed and that seems to be my MO here lately, dammit. Here's a screen grab after the transcode in 5DtoRGB to ProRes 422HQ

    JPGgrab.jpg
    1080 x 635 - 592K
  • @Splendidd, i dont know what chu talkin bout... that GTX vid is great.

    The Garden one is better...

    awesome.

    maybe try out some intra patches on that crane?

  • @onionbrain

    Thank you for the kind words! You cleared some stuff up, i will remember the movements versus framerates next time i film stuff. I need to learn one important thing: I have a lot of patience when working in the studio in post, but when filming i am too rushed, i need to slow things down, thats also the reason some shots are crap because (as you described) are too fast :-)

    Regarding the C4D and AE tracking, i learned a lot from this tutorial:

    http://greyscalegorilla.com/blog/2011/12/how-to-make-an-animated-title-sequence-in-cinema-4d-and-after-effects/

    Only i used the new camera tracker and not a rendered picture but an animation (I turned global illumination and ambient occlusion off because of the insane render times). AE has a steep learning curve, but the results satisfies me so, that i love the program. However C4D is even more difficult, but with a little patience and the search for good tutorials like from Nick, you can come a long way :-) In fact i learned everything from youtube/vimeo tuts and the Philip Bloom DVD's. I never worked with real pro's before (sadly)

    BTW i use a 2008 Macpro 8-Core with 16GB ram and 6TB of internal storage. (I have a semipro music studio for over 2 decades) I customized the mac with a NVidia 570 GTX (pc spec) card for the cuda power, its a real time saver, all the CC, motion and other effects in PP can be done without any render time and at full resolution playback. This system does not have any issues at all mixing high bitrate GH2 footage with other codecs, in fact this is THE reason i turned my back on FCP/X, a bonus is that Adobe is much more pro, and more versatile with other adobe programs. I use a 64 95mb SD card in the GH2.

    I do have a slider, and i did a DIY motor config on it, but most of the time i use the manual mode. (because with the motor i need to drag the battery and cables around)

    Regarding the GH2 Hack, 720p does not work or is not available when attaching a field monitor, can anyone confirm this? this is annoying because i will not be able to shoot higher then 24p with the crane and on a tripod... for now i will be using my 7D @30p for that like i did in the car video.

    Thanks again for the tips, and compliments for motivating me to work harder ;-)

    Regards,

    Rob

  • @Splendiddd

    First and foremost -- your work is better than 98% of beginners -- both in terms of composition and your technical implementations. The Cinema 4D and AE camera tracker work in that car video was outstanding and inspired me to mess around with the new camera tracker in AE CS6. So, you've got an outstanding eye, and you've got the brainpower to make stuff work. Stick with it and in a few days you'll blow away anything I've ever done.

    Regarding your questions and my initial answers -- the two videos you posted are examples of everything I wrote. When you get that flicker/strobe -- it means the camera is moving too fast for the frame rate and focal length and distance to subject. That's it -- that's why it's happening -- you're moving the camera too fast. At 24p -- pans/moves need to be really, really, really slow. Look at the mom's garden video -- you'll see in some camera moves you don't have that flicker/strobe, yet in other shots you do. The difference is the camera is or is not moving too fast.

    I assume you've got a slider (and if it's a manual slider it's tougher to learn) -- so run some tests. Keep your shutter speed at 1/50th, have your subject not too far away (three or so feet), use a wide angle (that Tokina is fine), and do a bunch of slide at different speeds -- way too fast through to way too (outrageously) slow. Then, examine the footage in post. You'll see the flicker disappear when you get down to some very, very slow speed -- and that's the rule at work -- that's the speed a pro cinematographer would know to use.

    And, the higher the frame rate, the better motion will be handled.

    As a long shot side note -- if you're using high bitrate patches for the GH2 and comparing it to the standard (from memory) 38 Mbps 7D footage -- your video card may be more challenged by the high bitrate stuff during playback -- especially if your video card isn't wonderful. But -- that's only a playback thought -- and has nothing to do with the rules I described and the issues in your sample videos.

    So -- you're good -- and if you stick with it you'll be beyond great. You've got talent. The problems you describe aren't yours or the camera's -- they're the issues of the business. Stabilizer work should be done at 60p with the widest lens you can use. Slow that to 24p in post for the stuff that pleases normal audiences. Camera movements at 24p need to be slow, or you need to be focused far away and have the quick motion stuff be not in focus in the foreground.

    I could go on -- but I've got to run. Filming stuff today. Good luck and enjoy the journey!

  • @Splendiddd I don't think the difference in jitter in your example is so much caused by changing to 30p as by switching camera to the Canon 7d. Different cameras have different strengths and weaknesses, and the Canons may very well have smoother motion (at the expense of detail).

  • @onionbrain Thanks for your input Drew ;-) and YES i am a beginner and have to learn a lot, btw you are the one who made be buy the GH2, and i have no regret at all ! thanks for that, and i mean it...

    @onionbrain quote:

    "There are specific formulas for camera movement -- frame rate, focal length, distance to subject. If I'm doing a crane shot at 24p, then my lens is wide and I'm focused on something far away. If my subject is near, then my lens is as wide as possible and I'm moving slow, very slow. If I'm focused on something near and my lens isn't wide -- then I'm moving so slow it's beyond ridiculous. That's a translation of the formula. Google it -- it's all been discussed to death on every forum out there."

    I am doing exactly that!

    However, before i did a post here about the subject I tried to google it a lot and i did test a lot of options first, and if my final output would be 24p then its not a issue, but i am sorry but 30p and up looks so much better with crane shots...

    Take a look at this vid, i did all the footage in 24p:

    Lens on the crane shots was a Tokina 11-16mm @11mm and the aperture was around 8 orso

    This video i did the crane shots @30p on the canon with the Tokina: Output video is 29.97

    My opinion is that the footage @30p is much smoother and better to handle (as in the second video), i was just wondering if i could get the same results @24p... But as you said earlier in a private post in youtube, the GH2 720p mode is great, and MUCH better than the canon, and i can confirm that after testing. However i use a 30p sequence in PP just for the smoother motion.

    So now i will try to use only the GH2 this weekend on sunday, i have a Mopar meeting to film (just for fun) and will use the 720p mode with the GH2 for the motion stuff, i will post the result later.

    I think i will use the V7 nebula cluster for this...

    Please don't blame me of not knowing my craft Drew, i am eager to learn and i alway take your advice in your vids :-)

    Cheers

    Rob

  • @Splendiddd

    There are specific formulas for camera movement -- frame rate, focal length, distance to subject. If I'm doing a crane shot at 24p, then my lens is wide and I'm focused on something far away. If my subject is near, then my lens is as wide as possible and I'm moving slow, very slow. If I'm focused on something near and my lens isn't wide -- then I'm moving so slow it's beyond ridiculous. That's a translation of the formula. Google it -- it's all been discussed to death on every forum out there.

    You wrote: "720p is a nice mode for slowmo in post, but not for "normal" camera movements -> Glidecam and Cameracrane"

    To which I have no response because this makes no sense. 60p is vastly more forgiving for stabilizer work or camera movement work in any form. 30p is barely, barely better than 24p for camera movement.

    So, the "motion jerkness" isn't the fault of the camera. It's your fault. If you learn the basics of the craft of "cinematography" -- then the "motion jerkness" won't happen because you'll know exactly what you can and can't do. Or -- if that's a headache -- go out and buy a fisheye lens and film at 60p -- and there will be no "motion jerkness."

  • @Splendiddd Doesn't it look strange to blend 7D 30p with GH2 24p?

  • @Shon thanks but i know that already, i guess the GH2 is just for the 24p.. I think i will keep my 7D @30p for the crane and glidecam shots... (that is smooth enough for me) however its very hard to CC and let it justify with the GH2 footage :-(

    Thanks all anyway for the anwsers :-)

  • @SplendidddIn the movie camera has a shutter which is like a half drive. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Moviecam_schematic_animation.gif He makes good motion blur, but we do not have such a camera, we have electronic shutter. He will not give a smooth, but you can come close to this. At frame rates 24p should put 50 shutter speed, at a frequency of 60p - 125 (should be 120 but this is not present).

  • @Danielvy V8 is not the one hopefully the cluster v9 will be the most performing one. V8 will sure do better than v7. if you are looking for top notch wait for intravenus cinema soft matrix.

  • i had a v8 this morning :)

  • waiting for that v8!! this could be the one!!

  • You could try to either record at 1/40 or even 1/30 shutter to get more motionblur in cam, or - what I prefer - record at shorter shutter times like 1/125-1/400 and apply reel smart motion blur @0.5 in post. Just note that the second method will get you into problems with translucent objects like filming trough as window. Lens flares will also confuse the plugin.

  • @splendiddd I reckon hollywood films exploit motion blur in 24p frames, which make them look smoother @ 24fps (but not so good when pausing on individual frames)

  • hook up your mac to a tv and try playback 24p footage at 24hz

  • Thanks guys for the suggestions!

    I have a macpro 8core with 16gb of ram with a ati 5770 card AND a nvidia GTX (pcspec) 570 card (for the cuda power, btw works only with loin and up)

    But i am aware that even how odd it seems a encode 29.97 youtube premierepro export seems VERY choppy in the quicktime player, however most of the video's are just fine with VLC or Movist (i prefer both those players for motion checks)

    @robbin: 720p is a nice mode for slowmo in post, but not for "normal" camera movements -> Glidecam and Cameracrane

    @Flaschus:i will try the motion Jpeg mode (already tested it a while ago)

    The thing is that i want the best quality i can get, and i got that with these amazing hacks and the GH2, but i am really annoyed with the motion jerkness of some of the shots i take... Still maybe someone can answer the million dollar question: how is it that some (not all!) hollywood films get there crane shots so smooth @24p and i cannot even get the 60p or 30p 7D shots in that matter in a 24p export even they look great in the 29.97 sequence in PP....

    Again sorry for the off topic post, but this forum gives me most of the time some proper answers :-)

  • @splendid....

    MOTION JPeG has some very nice looking 30p hacks... 2k :) preloaded on cluster v7 i believe...

    u say that 24p is choppy?? on my mediaplayer; 24p footage sometimes only plays back i frames with the different gop structure... making a choppy look, i normally use VLC Player to playback... it is freeware, maybe playback software is the prob...

    however if u believe the footage looks choppy IN PP,, maybe 24p is just not the right choice for u...

    24p exported as 29.97 is most DVDs... youtube and vimeo accept 24p files..

    hope this helps

  • @Splendiddd 720 50p is best for fast motion, 24p is good for slow movements. HBR i never use. How you playback your footage is crucial. Seen very jerky footage on some computers setups

  • Ok maybe its not the right place to post this but there are so much pro's here so here goes:

    I tested the cluster v7 with my camera crane and glide cam in HBR mode, because the 24p mode is just to jerkey... (Slider and tripod shots work fine though, panning with tripod already causes problems..) The thing i do not understand (and i've googled it a lot) is that 24p is shit for motion, i did test several cases with different sequence settings in premiere tested along a 24p sequence and a 29.97 visa versa, and the 29.97 is just so much better.

    However, the thing that i do not get (and cannot find anywhere!) is how to set the GH2 to 30p... I thought i should bring it in HBR mode, So i recorded the footage in the HBR mode, and PP thinks its interlaced 29.97... however Streamparser on the pc says its 60i... so if i do a interperate footage in PP to progressive is that the right thing?, and IS it really 30p??? it looks better anyway (I read somewhere if its displayed as 60i but the footage IS 30p...)

    Please help, 24p is great for detail, but for motion it sucks, someone mentioned changing the shutterspeed, but i tried everything, but it does not make a difference...(24p is still jerkey)

    The strange thing though is that some " hollywood" films are 24p and there craneshots are just fine...(very smooth motion though the footage is 24p, how do they do that, or am i missing something?)

    Some advice is much appreciated ! (And yeah i know that the 24p GH2 mode is the best, i am also worried about the conversion to 29.97, my output will be vimeo and youtube for now)

    PS: the Tokina 11-16 (Canon Mount) works fine now, ive bought a KIPON adapter (with aperture control) Also the hack (Nebula V7) works great, however cameraplayback is not so good, but thats not a problem for me :-) Will add some footage soon.

    Regards,

    Rob

  • HI can anyone shed some light on the recent settings. I'm still using Canis Majoris Night at the moment which was the best settings to use a few weeks back. But now which is the best settings to use? Boom, Intravenus? I am just interested in maximum quality for heavy grading as I'm after the film look and not interested in TV. Lenses I use Zeiss, Voigtlander, SLR Magic.

    Cheers