@Tron Why not start a new thread for those that have pre-ordered the camera to constructively discuss their thoughts about the camera? Something like "Chime in If You Pre-Order A GH3 and Want to Chat" or something similar to that?

Then you won't have to wait for the tone of this discussion to change and will be able to focus the discussion towards the specific aspects you are interested in.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons for people to be anxious or concerned, and beyond that there is the chance that the volume and nature of comments could potentially get back to Panasonic and influence the priority they give to addressing the issues that (while minor to you) have been important to many others.

Also, a lot of the discussion isn't about people suffering because a new camera has come out that either costs too much or does not have the features they want. It is about the changes to a model line that they had become familiar with (and to varying degrees emotionally invested in) and concerns about the future direction that will take.

If the GH2 is the end-of-the-line for multi-aspect-sensors in video-heavy hybrids for Panasonic, then that is something worth talking about (and trying to prevent). If moire issues turn out to be more important to the customers than Panasonic thought, then that is worth talking about.

Those are two things that are not about missing new features. They are about "taking a step backward" from the GH2 in areas that some of use consider to be important, and we are worried not just about the GH3 but about the GH4 or whatever else Panasonic has in mind. We want to make sure that it maintains the things that are important to us.

At least that is my read on it. Maybe I am off-base.

@TMCat I thought you could use those same lenses on a GH2, you just didn't have the zoom controls on camera or something? I am not very well-read on them.

Note: As I have said before, if the new strengths are dramatic enough to make-up for the new weaknesses, I will be happy to embrace the camera. But that will not stop me from desiring a new camera that maintains the strengths of the GH2 (in terms of the ones the GH3 left behind) even such a camera builds upon those strengths and extends beyond them.

@thepalalias You are spot on 'They are about "taking a step backward" from the GH2 in areas that some of use consider to be important' But for me GH3 has significant step forwards both physically aswell as image quality, which for me totally outweigh the GH2's minor strengths over it. For example the fact a 12mm prime is a 25mm on GH3 where as it would of been a 22mm on GH2 means next to nothing to me, but the fact GH3 has more DR/improved colour,low light/native 25p/better build/headphone socket/1080 slo mo ect ect means alot more. If people really need that 1.86crop factor then keep hold of that GH2.

@Tron I make no attempt to control or change your opinion. I was simply stating that I disagreed about the usefulness of that aspect of this thread and that if you wanted to change the discussion you could start another thread to make that happen.

Just applying your own approach of trying to be proactive instead of feeling powerless about the situation. :)

EDIT: Also, I am aware no hardware change is likely to happen before the release. If the GH3 is a miss, then it is important to me that the GH4 be more successful. Panasonic thought MAR was not important to us. I want to make sure they are aware that is not accurate so they can keep making products that I appreciate and therefore buy. Since I feel I am not alone in this, I voice it.

@thepalalias Understood, perfectly reasonable... except this is a GH3 thread and not a GH4 thread. I'm more interested in getting more info on this incarnation of the GH line. I do not mean to come across as slamming anyone who wants to revive those feature for next-gen, that is fine and seems entirely in tradition with PV's focus on progress... just think it's more appropriate in it's own GH4/5 thread. I will now happily relinquish my blather and STFU, I've been hogging way too much text and venting as well. Goodnight fellow GH'rs, sweet high-bitrate dreams upon you all.

I've just quietly made my mind up not to get a GH3, personally I have not seen a single video on that camera that looks nicer than the GH2, and I have looked at them all in several media players, and Adobe Premiere CS6 as well. Yes the low light looks better, colors better?..maybe, DR better...but not over the top better,but taking all that into consideration... the image overall is definitely not a step up from the GH2.

And if the MAS plays a part in that (and I suspect it does) then IMO the GH3 does not move forward in Video quality at all really, possibly backwards.

I realize the feeling solid in your hands, better connectors, timecode, low light etc..are very important to some people. But I can only speak from my point of view (producing and shooting music videos) and the main thing a good deal of us wanted...BETTER VIDEO is simply not there..period, so these other improvements (to me anyway) dont mean a lot.

If I want solid feeling Camera with good colors but a soft video...then the 5D Mk3 is there..(and it has a Canon sign on the front too LOL!!) There is not a single video that I have seen (incl the 500 plus meg file from Philip Bloom) that impresses me at all in terms of great looking footage from the camera. I'll take a plastic feeling, non solid connector, non time code Camera that produces great footage...anyday over the other if the video is not as good.

I realize others disagree...cool...but I agree with @thepalalias on this, Panasonic should know that there are a large portion of DSLR style video shooters that wont be buying this camera, based on what they have neglected to build on from the GH2.

@svart

Quote I'm not sure that a lot of people on this forum understand that there are tradeoffs in technology and that their requests might have been the whole reason panny went this route..

The head engineer said the tradeoffs were basically for stills (to compete with the Canon, Nikon) He said they are trying to compete in that market...take it up to Canon and Nikon in the photography/video market, so there were video tradeoffs. Thats how I understand it, you could read it yourself. Also as I understand it, this is largely a Video Community, thats the reason for the popularity of the hacks, so it wasn't the requests of this forum that caused the tradeoffs at all.

It is because the Olympus OM-D-EM5 has been doing well with their Sony non MAS sensor, and Canon and Nikons video is not all the amazing in the DSLR's, so Panasonic have decided to go that profitable route. And they have thrown in some goodies like native 25P, 50/60P, better low light etc.. to keep the indie video makers happy and thrown away the MAS in the process.

Can't blame them I guess...I certainly dont, they cant please everybody but they probably will lose the footage they gained in the indie DSLR video shooters community.

I hope to be wrong, but it appears that way.

I'm still reading back through this thread but I'm glad we had great PV meda crew on-site to take and share footage. Exceptional work from them from what I have seen. I will make a payment for thank-you because there is a lot of work they put in for our benefit.

Anyway I put their footage through an avisynth script I just finished to evaluate encoder performance across the luma range. It does look immediately like encoding of low luma content is much improved. The grain is much much finer than on the GH2. Use my script to look at your own footage and see if you agree.

Note: Attached a second file mapping the lowest luma range 0-32 instead of 0-64

I think voicing valid concerns is what makes a conversation worth having. I haven't seen a single post out right bashing the gh3 or inciting negativity without reason. In fact most all of the concerns have been quite interesting and very much worth talking about. I think if the footage matched what what most are expecting from a gh2 upgrade, then we'd all be throwing our wallets at the screen and salivating like wolves with rabies in anticipation.

From what I've heard, there's some pretty great unreleased footage floating around that just may convince others including myself to upgrade. Until that day, I remain nothing more than hopeful. But I secretly want to be convinced that this is definitely the beast we've been waiting for. I actually exchanged a couple messages with their PR division today to see what the likelihood of getting a pre-release model in hand for some testing would be. They "appreciated my enthusiasm" but aren't likely to distribute any more pre-production models for testing haha. I'd have some fun taking it for a spin no doubt.

@QuickHitRecord

It won't hurt, but it also won't help :-)

@Vitaliy_Kiselev I think that it's worth a try. It will either result in nothing, or an improvement.

Quote I can see clearly that Panasonic didn't really follow the videographer and pro recommendation, look like more a photographer recommendation. -----------------------------------------

@Neverprod

Exactly what it seems like to me too, and many others, its a risky move because they have a strong videographer community. I mean I realize the grain sample may be finer, better luminosity and more detail in low light...these are all video considerations, but to my eye it does not look any better at video, perhaps worse...from what I have seen. I mean after all...most people watch film and video and judge it by the look of it, not wether the low light is 1 stop better or whatever, or the noise grain is finer etc...

@Astro I think if we are going to critique image quality we need to be specific to be fair. What is that you feel looks worse? They cannot fix it if we aren't specific.

MAR would not fix moire - it would just change the crop ratio and allow the camera to better take advantage of shooting at different aspect ratios.

@thepalalias Agreed, I have made several posts..describing the image quality issues.

The P Bloom video 1080p large MP4 (from memory) 7 sec and 18 sec...dead soft..blunt even. I would have thrown those shots away if I had shot them with a GH2...no disrespect to P-Bloom, he's more knowledgeable and experienced than I will ever be, and thats what worries me, this is probably a camera issue. Colors have no pop at all, this may be deliberate....so I cant really go on about that...but compare it to Reverie. The colors are muddy. Its hard to describe, but somehow the GH2 has a more pleasing image, the P-Bloom video is blunt and trying to look filmic and the other stuff, cat etc...looks videoish and Sony like.

So what do I know? probably not much, but I am a pro artist, I used to be a mural airbrush artist and now I build 3d worlds, light them, texture them and sell them. I have to make them look great, piece by piece from scratch..often taking several months to do a complete build..(fantasy cities etc..)

I have been doing this for over a decade...so I have a fair idea of a good looking image. And I haven't seen any from the GH3 so far, thats the bottom line fro me anyway. And also like yourself I have a background in Music (guitarist and composer) and extensive DAW as well...dating back to Logic on the Atari (when it was C-Lab Creator) Anyway its not my goal to gripe that much, I dont think Panansonic will do much, and I am ready to move on...unless the production model of the GH3 is a blast...and I will happily eat my words.