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GH2 Stutter/Judder/Strobe issues discussion
  • DalefpfDalefpf
    Hello,

    First off, thanks for all of the great work being done here. I was wondering if any of the new settings could help reduce the effect of judder and strobe I tend to see while using the GH2? I actually returned my first GH2 because I believed it was faulty. Now, on my second camera, I see the same effect. I know a few others have felt the same way and was hoping to get an understanding of what causes the effect and what might be done to help resolve it. Maybe it is what it is?
  • 218 Replies sorted by
  • No_SuRReNDeRNo_SuRReNDeR
    Can you be more specific about what settings you are using?....
    for example
    -24H shutter at 1/50 Iso at 160 f stop @ 1.7 etc....
  • awelgravenawelgraven
    Can you show us an example of "juddery" footage?
  • DalefpfDalefpf
    Actually, I see it with all normal film settings. Lowering the shutter to 1/30 or so helps it a tad but it still exists. I've done a lot of testing and compared it with other cameras. There is something a bit strange to me. Not just the normal 24fps issues. Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts about settings that might have an affect on this issue. (Well, it's an issue to me. Others don't see it at all and are very happy with their cameras. Just wanted to put that out there.)
  • kaekae
    @Dalefpf

    Are you shooting 24P in creative mode only? Don't get any 'judder' there at all, the footage is smooth as silk, well, as smooth as 24 frames can ever be.
  • bwhitzbwhitz
    How does it look in 50 or 60i mode?

    I wouldn't suggest ever going down to 1/30 in 24p mode. Open shutters are no good for anyone's footage... unless you really want the smearing for some effects or something.
  • No_SuRReNDeRNo_SuRReNDeR
    -delete-
  • chipchip
    I suppose you don't see those issues when playing back in camera? I think that's more of a monitor(-ing) issue playing back certain framerates where playback appears juddery.
  • DalefpfDalefpf
    Yeah, I've only used creative mode for 24p. I see this in many peoples footage. Static shots with this camera are awesome. Moving shots are a different story. ( my opinion only) Still, my wonder is if any of these hack settings could possibly smooth out the look for panning. My guess is that it has to do with avchd itself.
  • DalefpfDalefpf
    Even final renders projected digitally in a movie theater seem to exhibit this behavior. To me at least.
  • Angry_CAngry_C
    @Dalefpf

    Please reduce the sharpness in the filmmode settings to -2. This will decrease the stobe effekt. Judder is normal for 24 fps.
  • DalefpfDalefpf
    Thanks, Angry_C but I've done that. I went through all of this stuff last January with the first camera. Judder is totally normal. I agree. This much judder? I don't know.......
  • DalefpfDalefpf
    Chip, I actually can see some of these issues when playing back in the camera. Just more difficult because the screen is so small. I believe that this is the nature of this particular camera. Just looking for a way to overcome it.
  • paglezpaglez
    I'm getting the same problem than Dalefpf. I'm using kae's 65 mbits hack. Shutter in 1/50.
  • fehafeha
    @Dalefpf
    I also have same problem, as you pan or move a camera while shooting, you get a strobe effect.
    I own a PAL version, and first thought it was cause of 24 fps, but i can't find way to reduce this strobe effect!?
    I see lot of other videos done with GH2 and there is no strobe effect.
    Note: even if I pan, move slowly i get this ... only in Cinema 24p mode ...
    I'm also curious as Dalefpf ...
    This "problem" was even before hack ....
  • No_SuRReNDeRNo_SuRReNDeR
    Hmm...maybe it's just a GOP thing I bet motion looks smoother with a lower GOP setting like 3.
  • proaudio4proaudio4
    upload samples to vimeo.
    This sounds normal to me.
  • DalefpfDalefpf
    Feha, there really isn't that much moving footage out there to look at but I do see it. It's hard to get a good idea from stuff on the uploaded on the web. This is my second camera and I have worked with footage from others that look the same. Yeah, it renders 24p useless for me. I hope someone whom feels the same way is smart enough to figure out a good fix. I know I'm not....

    Paglez, Did you have the same problem and fix it with kae's 65 mbits hack? Or, you're having the problem after the hack?

  • fehafeha
    Just to explain "strobe" as i see, it's more like "robotic" not a smooth pan or movement.
    Creative mode, no problems ...
  • DalefpfDalefpf
    So, I loaded one of the GOP 3 settings and I would have to say it tended to help a bit. I'll look at it again outside in the daylight. Maybe there is something to this. I hope someone who knows more than I can ring in on this subject. It's frustrating because there really is only a handful of people complaining about this issue. I sometimes think I'm crazy but when I compare the footage with any of my other cameras I just don't see this much judder. Hell, I edit footage everyday and when I got some GH2 footage in I recognized it right off the bat.
  • DouglasHornDouglasHorn
    I see some strange uneven stutter on my 24P footage as well. It's as if not all of the frames have the same amount of motion on them. As I've been reading more here about GOP, it seems possible that the 15GOP structure may play a role. I've switched to 3GOP but so far I have not shot any smooth dolly shots that really show this uneven stutter.

    By the way, I've worked with film several times and this phenomenon is very different than the 24 fps film judder I know and love.
  • DrDaveDrDave
    I have always wondered whether this was deliberate. I the GH2 manual, for 24p, it states for the definition for 24p:
    "Record motion pictures with afterimages like a cinema." (P105)
    Afterimages?
  • kaekae
    @Angry_C

    That's an informative thread and really leads me to believe (aside from the sharpness issue) that a lot of this is the playback device. I had to add the CoreCodec to my Win 7 64Bit laptop and set Windows Media Player to use it before any of my clips would play correctly. Before I did this I would see a judder, stutter, etc. especially in a pan because of the heavy motion. When I stick my SD card in my Sony Blu Ray player, it finds my original files and they play without any of the stutter to my HD monitor. I think the only real way to prove if the strobe/stutter is there or not is to ingest it into the NLE using a high quality INTRAFRAME codec that is known to play without stressing your CPU - e.g. DNXHD175 on the Avid - and see how it plays back then with AVCHD out of the mix.
  • DrDaveDrDave
    Or just play it. Most people editing video will have power to spare for playback.
  • DalefpfDalefpf
    Okay, I checked out the 3 GOP setting this morning and it's not really helping. Also, I did read that entire thread a while back and looked into the playback issues. I don't believe that is the problem. And, trust me, I wanted to believe that was the problem.The thought of an $800 camera is just too tempting not to try anything to make it work. So, does anyone here believe the GOP stuff could help with this? Or, should we look at something else? Any feedback would be appreciated. I'm going to try a few more stable settings throughout the day. I'll report back if I see any results.
  • MattMatt
    Trust me, it's normal for 24p. THERE IS NOTHING ABNORMAL ABOUT THE GH2'S 24P MOTION RENDITION!

    If you want smoother motion, then 24p is NOT for you. Shoot in 30p instead, and at least that will be in sync with most monitors.

    If you want to see 24p in its best light (this applies to any camera, not just the GH2) then set your monitor to either 48 or 72hz by making a custom refresh rate (unless it exposes it as useable already). Your 24p will never have looked SO smooth.
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