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GH2 Flow Motion v2 - 100Mbps Fast Action Performance & Reliability for Class 10 SD cards
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  • @rawmeyn best player I've found for MTS files on mac is Movist. Toast Video Player (inside the Toast 10 app package) works smoothly too (licensed from Elgato and unfortunately replaced with a crappy in-house player in Toast 11). Also, the Panasonic "AVCCAM Importer" QuickTime plug-in for OSX plays MTS files smoothly when handled by QuickView (as opposed to QuickTime Player X). Just my personal experience. Hope this helps.

  • @rawmeyn i have tried a lot of the players. This one is just a quicktime plus this:

    https://eww.pass.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/dload/avccam_impt/agree_e.htm

    it allows you to use the mts files directly with FCP and to preview in finder which is very handy. It also shows an average bit rate which is nice too.With high bit rate patches and long files it is not so fast to open them. Also be aware that it has created some issues in the past for my fcp 7, namely if i have a sd card with the gh2 structure open before FCP 7 would not open(sometimes) If i open FCP first then insert the sd card it works just fine. I just discovered toast titanium video player to be the smoothest player even with the heavy files, apart from mplayerx which unfortunately has the date imprint on any mts file. a free program called MediaInfo can give you more insight into the mts files.

    http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en

    hope this helps.

  • @rapsoe good to see we are on the "same page" ; )

    p.s.amazingly the toast player I use is "old" - from 2008 (toast video player 3.0 licensed by elgato)!it can do a anamorphic crop(not stretching but really cropping the video) The only thing i miss there is a playlist.

    Thanks for the movist suggestion!Finally a playlist player ; )

  • @rapsoe i didn't know movist until now. it plays all files in a row :-) Great, i search such a thing for a long time, thans

  • @peternap real fast and detailed action sport (motor bikes)....
    Example http://speedy.sh/Vg6q4/00018.MTS its just a 28 mb download, its not sharp, filming didn't give probs, it happens when i stop filming, then it freezes, if it does not, it take many many seconds to save the file,

    but flowmotion 2 give incredible images, if all go's well ...........

  • @rapsoe & @luxis thanks so much guys! I love this community. It's so much more fun to check the footage now ;) Movist is amazing! So is MediaInfo. As I'm going on a long trip soon (were I'm going to carry just a little netbook with me) I wonder if there is "Movist-Equivalent" for Windows too? Whats the best player to check MTS files on Windows? Thanks so much!

    Until now I did always transcode my GH1(3) footage to ProRes. Then for SlowMotion I was using Cinema Tools to convert my 720p 50fps into 25fps. Is there a workflow to check my GH2s 720p clips in real Slowmotion without transcoding? Sorry for being a little bit offtopic with these questions.

    I will do some lowlight FMv2.0 tests tonight! Thanks guys!

  • The ones with skies are normally a banding nightmare but in this test with FM v2.0 i don't have this issue. the ETC one is not so sharp but i would imagine it is mostly due to a hand held shot at around 200mm(58mm x crop factor x etc) manual lens no OIS ; )

    24p standard -2,-2,-1,-2 iso160 (the moon-iso400'ish, maybe?)

    side note: the player is movist and i used the command shift 3 to capture the images(mac) so that i can have the file info too.

    FM v2.0 what banding?!1a.png
    1440 x 900 - 788K
    FM v2.0 what banding?2a.png
    1440 x 900 - 1M
    FM v2.0 macroblocking?!_1.png
    1440 x 900 - 2M
    FM v2.0 ETC mode_what banding?2b.png
    1440 x 900 - 2M
  • About to use the flow motion 2.0 patch today for a shoot!

  • @luxis I Didn't know about mediainfo. thanks!

    @LPowell I did some short tests with FM2. My concern was noise, as I loved FM1.1 but had switched back to all-intras as I couldn't stand the noise rendition difference between I frames and B frames in FM1.1. In FM2 I can't tell the difference. That's amazing. And FM2 scales so well too! You really did an amazing job with FM2. It'll probably be my new patch of choice. Thanks so much for all your hard work!

  • @mpgxsvcd @mozes @peternap Thanks for your reports! After further testing, I found a problem in NTSC 720p60 mode when shooting brightly lit, high-detail subjects. In my case, I've only seen it occur after around 90 seconds of a static tripod shot, which has made it a bit time-consuming to test. The high frame rate of 720p60 mode makes it more challenging to stabilize, and I'll need to put some additional time into verifying a failsafe fix.

    @rawmeyn For playback of MTS files on Windows, have you tried Media Player Classic? With high bitrate files,I've found it to be more reliable than VLC:

    http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/download-media-player-classic-hc.html

  • @LPowell I can wait for the fix I think. Most of my shots are 10-30 seconds. Otherwise...this is mighty nice so far!

    @rawmeyn Splash Lite works well for high bitrate files also. You do have to go to the paid version for a frame grab though.

  • @luxis nice clean shots - interestingly my bitrates in movist are reporting much much higher values - in the 140ks in smooth all -2 were you shooting 24p 24H? Manual lens.

    Screen Shot 2012-05-26 at 18.27.31.png
    1397 x 789 - 2M
  • @LPowell Yes thats it "shooting brightly lit, high-detail subjects"
    Just did some test to reproduce that problem.
    If i follow a fast moving object, in my case a dirtbike, and it gos from a "dark" background, to a over exposed one (think on a big jump), and back to the dark background, where the camera does a refocus, there it go's wrong when i stop the recording..

    I must say your scaling tables and deblocking ones are just briljant.
    i did merge them with my own patch, and now the DC in the Elementry Stream Encoder is not 2 anymore, but 6

  • @soundgh2 thanks! your's also. Yes, it was all manual lens and in 22p 24H. i think is logically related to the content. your screenshot is details packed/leafy and lower light/darker. Mine were in the magic hour with bright and strong sunset light. The lower bit rates ones are the ones with a lot of sky(no details)

    i had some around/over 100mbts but not 140's . but really if i have an image i am pleased/can work with would care less for it to be high bit rate.

  • @LPowell. Lee, just did a quick test of FM2 with Panasonic 14-140mm lens using Sandisk Extreme 32GB 30mb/s and Transcend SDXC 64GB class 10 cards. 24H,L and HBR worked fine with great quality on both cards. FH and H modes worked fine too. The only problem is with SH and FSH which stops with write errors. I really need the 720p60 SH specially for slow motion. It seems like when bitrate for FSH/SH reaches mid to high 50s then stops with write errors. Bitrates below 50 works fine. Will reducing the top end of the SH/FSH bitrate from 99 to a lower value help with this situation without any noticeable compromise? Thanks for all your hard work After refreshing my browser I noticed your comment on further testing on 720p60 and a possible fix.

  • @luxis aye also not a bitrate peeper only noticed after installing Movist (which is a great heads up @rapsoe) - loving the patch though /hatsoff Mr LPowell great stuff :)

  • @mozes Thanks for confirming my test results. As you've discovered, the GH2 has a tendency to overreact to rapidly changing exposure and detail levels when you start a recording with a blank scene. The AVCHD encoder appears to use the first P-frame in the initial GOP to predict the bitrate requirements of the subsequent video frames. While that works very well for typical shots with static scenery, it can confuse the encoder when the exposure shifts dramatically a few seconds after the recording starts. Since Flow Motion v2 does not use P-frames in its 1080 modes, I was able to take advantage of this P-frame calibration mechanism in the design of its Scaling Tables, using it to manipulate the encoder's rate control at high bitrates.

    Unfortunately, I wasn't able to employ this technique in 720p60 mode, since its 6-frame GOP uses P-frames as well as B-frames. I actually put about a week into an attempt to perfect a GOP-3 720p patch, but its image quality wasn't as consistent as the 6-frame GOP used in FM2. To make it even more challenging, I was able to produce reliable and highly optimized results in PAL 720p50 mode that I'm reluctant to compromise with heavy stability adjustments to 720p60 mode,

  • @mpgxsvcd To analyze the video stream you have to do two rounds on the menu Tools.

    First round is create elementary...

    Second round is Decode elementary...

    You'll get a nice line log with all sort of frame statistics.

  • Meanwhile, I reviewed all 1080p recordings I took from the "moving tree leaves in the sun". Here is what I found:

    The results for 24H have an average bit rate of 113MBit/s (without ETC) and 118MBit/s (with ETC), and they look very, very good - visibly better than the GOLGOP3 setting I used before (which was also producing very good results at ~80MBit/s). I spotted only very faint compression artifacts where in the lower midtones of a very fast changing area, horizontal borders between different colored areas became visible for a few frames - not something that would come to the viewers attention at normal playback speed.

    The results for VMM 80% have an average bit rate of 105MBit/s, and they, too, look very very good, not visibly different from the 24H results. But there was one glitch in ~15 minutes recorded, where some (ffmpeg based) players report the following error message, and 5 frames show damaged blocks (see attached screenshot):

    [h264 @ 0xfd6920]negative number of zero coeffs at 104 36 [h264 @ 0xfd6920]error while decoding MB 104 36 [h264 @ 0xfd6920]concealing 3785 DC, 3785 AC, 3785 MV errors

    The strange thing about this glitch is that it resembles a similar glitch I experienced when testing GOP3ZILLA, which also had some damaged blocks in the lower third of the screen - and which also was ignored (and decoded with no visible damage) by other players. Maybe this is not at all setting related (and it is only the second time ever I have seen such a glitch).

    Last but not least, I tried the HBR (NTSC) mode, and there I experienced a bad surprise: The average bit rate of the HBR 30p recording was only ~50MBit/s, and thus not too surprising, it exhibited serious compression artifacts - see attached screen shot. The quality of the HBR recording is low for the whole "moving leaves" recording, not just in a few frames of it.

    Bottom line for me so far: Thanks a lot for what is probably the best 24fps GOP3 setting today - the quality is really awesome.

    I hope the HRB/NTSC quirk can be fixed.

    Next I will try to do some 720p60 recordings.

    tree_FM20_VMM80_glitch.png
    1920 x 1080 - 4M
    tree_FM20_HBR.png
    1920 x 1080 - 4M
  • I too was victim to a shut down with high detail HBR NTSC needing a battery pull: will try it with a better (95) card, in it's defense only one out of 12 clips in this enviorment caused an issue and the quality is so much better than anything I have used before it's worth the price.

  • @Karl. Nice report. I would be interested in your 720p60 test results. I am having write errors at bitrates above 55MB.

  • Thank you LPowell for this great settings! The image quality is the best I've seen so far with any settings I've tested. FM 1.11 was my favorite settings for 24H, but not for HBR. Now FM 2.0 is even better for 24H and great for HBR. What I like most is the smooth motion and the reduced judder.

    But, I've experienced some camera freeze with HBR (PAL) on some high detail bright daylight static scenes (landscapes with a lot of details) today. I need to pull out the battery to stop the camera. I use a Sandisk 32 Class 10 30mb/s and panasonic 14-140 on a tripod, IS off.

    The 24H works like a charm and is absolutely amazing! Thank you again!

  • I did some lowlight shots in a big room with just a small lightsource in a corner. The cam shut down once in HBR (Pal) mode after 1.50min at iso 320 with the 20mm pancake at f1.7 (Smooth -2 -2 0 -1). All other HBR shots came out just fine. I did tests from ISO 160 up to 2500, all shots were between 2 & 3 minutes long. The average bit rate was around 55MBit/s for all clips. Then I gave 24H a try (but I need 25fps so bad(!)) at ISO2500 and it looked just great. The bit rate was higher at around 100MBit/s. I was using a SanDisk Extreme 30MB/s Class10 8GB Card. Cheers!

  • @LPowell Just so I understand what you're saying...The problems you're seeing in 720-60 is due to a processing conflict while jumping from a flat scene to a busy one and the card speed doesn't matter?

    I haven't had the problem yet but feel like I'm panning water with CM. It's a matter of time.

  • re PAL / HBR25p:

    write speed error after a few seconds shooting a static death chart (black&white/high contrast) on both SanDisk 30MB/s (16GB) and SanDisk 95MB/s (32GB). What a pity!

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