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Zacuto 'Revenge of Great Camera Shootout,' featuring GH2
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  • shianshian

    @thepalalias Yes. If the GH2 had that extra DR, I'd use it side by side with the RED, but in conditions where I light for the GH2's DR, you can get footage that cuts pretty well with RED shot in same scene. Not perfect, but decent. But it's a waste of the Red's DR.

    the R3D files are almost unbreakable in post. You can bend and twist the image really far, and in some case more so than film. If it were less buggy, and had that super smooth highlight roll off of film, it would be a perfect camera.

    We're maybe another 5-10 years away from a system that will in every way replace film without excuses. But the options out there are very workable for many situations...it's not the camera..but the 12 inches behind the camera that counts.

  • bwhitzbwhitz

    "...it's not the camera..but the 12 inches behind the camera that counts."

    That's weird... I've never operated a camera with my wiener before. :)

  • rozrozrozroz

    "...it's not the camera..but the 12 inches behind the camera that counts." That's weird... I've never operated a camera with my wiener before. :)

    LOL- at the fact i bet it's not 12 inches ;)

  • RobertoRoberto

    @shian

    the options out there are very workable for many situations

    I totally agree! I see many digital films where there are situations where the content looks as good as film - or better. Then you get a night scene where everything goes that khaki which a whole generation of colourists have decided looks natural.

    If the cameraman is a 12-inch ****head, the guy behind the computer's an even bigger one! ;-0

  • kavadnikavadni

    Help me Help me, there are 2 red users and 7 canon user bashing at my door, they want to hire my GH2

  • brianlucebrianluce

    @bwhitz

    That's weird... I've never operated a camera with my wiener before. :)

    Really? It's a good way to minimize banding. See page 69 of the manual.

  • Ian_TIan_T

    @bwhitz...lol...aah...I see what you did there.

    EDIT:OOps ...I meant @brianluce..lol

  • thepalaliasthepalalias

    @shian Yes, the flexibility in post is a huge difference. It was interesting to me to shoot with the RED Scarlet a week after watching a C500 movie (Man and Beast) and getting to spend a few minutes of hands on time with the camera.

    Sometime I would love to try grading C500, F65 and RED footage to see what strengths each brought (I am less interested in the Alexa because of the resolution but still interested). I heard at least one colorist (that worked with footage from alll of them) that their favorite to work with was the C500 because of the highlight roll-off (among other things) even though it had a narrower dynamic range (12 stops). Someone else that had graded all but the C500 really loved the F65.

    But wherever those line up vs each other, the gap between GH2 footage and RED footage in terms of post is pretty huge and I have not had any issues on the RED so far.

  • bwhitzbwhitz

    @brianluce "Really? It's a good way to minimize banding. See page 69 of the manual."

    damn... I had no idea. I'll have to look into this.

  • oscillianoscillian

    @brianluce I guess you're referring to the French slang: "bander" in that comment ;)

  • JDNJDN

    @thepalalias the comment I've heard from a few DOPs I work with is that there is something magical about the gh2 24p cadence that they don't get from reds... do you find this? Whenever I look at red footage I have the feeling of seeing incredibly high quality stills strung together, whereas with the gh2 (and alexa for that matter... ) it feels somehow transportative and there's some sort of intangible magic. Yeah, super technical explanation...

    Just trying to put my finger on what the testers in this screening saw, and why they had such a meh response to red and sony footage (other than the f65)

  • kholikholi

    @JDN

    I told them (Colt, operating the GH2 for the Zacuto shootout) to use 1/40 shutter, and I am curious if they did. Honestly, not all 24P is the same and I think part of the GH2 draw IS the motion. SOny can't get there, it's NEVER Been able to get there, although I did hear that the F65 looks proper finally.

    Alexa, it gets there. RED, it goes in and out and I can NEVER tell why. Sometimes it looks great, sometimes it looks unappealing. Canons have their own look entirely, but can be more pleasant shooting 1/45 shutter instead of 1/50th.

    Some people will tell you that you're crazy and you can't tell a difference because they can't tell a difference. IN fact, there's topic going on right now about the FS100/Sony video motion and people continue to tell a nice sized chunk of users who CAN see it... that it has something to do with lighting, craft, etc.

    If you can't see it, you can't see it, but it's there.

    The Magic Cam footage is pretty spot on.

  • bwhitzbwhitz

    "Some people will tell you that you're crazy and you can't tell a difference because they can't tell a difference."

    haha. We had a big argument about this when the low-GOP patches started coming out...

    Some people even went as far as to say that it was impossible to even tell the difference between a 1/25 and 1/50 shutter angle. :slamhead:

    "Just trying to put my finger on what the testers in this screening saw, and why they had such a meh response to red and sony footage (other than the f65)"

    Well, dunno about the Red. I've always like the way Red looks. But as far as the Sony stuff, yea, the motion on the FS-100 and F3 have never looked good to me. Did they use external recorders? Because anything that isn't all Intra-Frame looks like crap to me now. Even the C300's has the temporally-compressed look due to the long-gop codec.

    ...but, the F65 has that new mechanical shutter coupled with the digital sensor... so that may be the trick.

  • kholikholi

    @bwhitz

    I can imagine. I've been debating this same topic since the DVX100 days, and it only got worse when the HVX200 came out and people compared the motion to 24F, EX-1's 24P. The HVX200 and Canon's were CLEARLY more "film like" than the Sony, but people swore up and down that there was no difference.

    Strangely enough, at the time I found the Canon to be different but pleasant, however the HVX200 still trumped.

    Part of Panasonic's Mojo was always the 24P.

    I ALSO get the same flack from people telling me I can't tell the difference between shutter angles and it's almost laughable.

    But, at the end of the day I guess if someone can't see it then they just can't see it.

  • jrdjrd

    @JDN

    As I've said elsewhere here, what people saw and responded to at Zacuto was the lighting and grading of the GH2 footage (which was quite different from all the other cameras) in the second half of the test, not the motion cadence, not the resolution, and not the DR.

    If the comparison had ended with the one-light grade and the universal lighting set up, the preferences would probably have tracked the prices of the cameras much more closely.

  • plasmasmpplasmasmp

    @kholi. I finally got my gh2 to do the weird strobe effect where the motion is all screwed up. 1/40 or 1/50 didn't matter. It was something to do with lots of high contrast edges that messed up the processing. AS far as motion goes, nothing looks better than the old rotational mechanical shutter. I wish there was a way to sync the gh2 and try it it with one of those tessive time filters.

  • kholikholi

    @plasmasmp

    Yes, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. When there're a lot of leaves etc against a bright sky, you can see it blatantly and it is SUPER ugly. Only way to defeat it is to cut light until the contrast is balanced out.

    The weird thing is this: I can also use a different set of lenses altogether to defeat it, without the penalty of being forced to close down. I noticed, after reviewing footage, using Zeiss Standard Speed PL glass, these harsh edges pretty much vanished.

    Recently, I revisited some old lenses that I had and compared them to Nikon, Canon EF, and my last Contax Zeiss copy to make sure that I wasn't seeing things. Sure enough, problem solved.

    Soon as I get some time I'm going to do the 24~28mm comparison with all of the 24's and 28's that I own.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @kholi So you saying 1/40th shutter is best for the GH2 for a filmic cadence..

  • kholikholi

    @TrackZillas

    I'm saying that's what made me comfortable with the GH2. 1/50 doesn't look right to me, 1/40 looks pretty good. I went through the same thing with the Canons, and have been recommending for a very long time that people switch from 1/50 to 1/45, only a few people do it or try it, but everyone that does ends up switching over indefinitely.

    IF you want to try it, shoot people at 1/40, friends, family, then see how you like it.

  • brianlucebrianluce

    @TrackZillas, This issue has been discussed a lot. It comes down to personal preference. I like 1/40th because it requires a little less light. I can't really tell the difference in the motion signature, but Kholi and others can. Main point is, don't reflexively set the shutter at 1/50th our truly limiting yourself.

  • pinger007pinger007

    @TrackZillas

    I agree with the 1/40th shutter speed recommendation. To my eye it provides a more filmic motion than what the 1/50th provides. I know that 1/50th is closer to 1/48th, but it's just too stuttery and DSLRish for my taste. Another plus is that it lets in more light for those times when you need it. :)

  • kholikholi

    @pinger007

    Believe it or not, or try it or not (haha), you could get away with 1/30th if the camera' snot moving a ton, or people in frame aren't moving a ton. Tiny bit of extra light. =PPPP

  • pinger007pinger007

    @kholi

    Been there. :-)

    I remember using 1/24th back in my dvx100 days... A ”wild man” they would call me. :-)

  • mikomiko

    I'm using very much 1/40th now, with a PAL GH2, filming in NTSC lands, at 24p, to avoid flicker problems with artificial lights.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @kholi @brianluce @pinger007 thank you all for your insight I like what I'm hearing about the 1/40th shutter, specially the increase in light hug plus & finally image stuttering. Will give it a run later tonight..

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