@Ebacherville The system implementation is faulty and not its principles. Fix the holes in the system that allow this 3rd generation abuse of it, but don't punish people that DO need assistance. If somebody has been laid of work lately because of unjust "free"(?) market speculation and is about to be thrown on the street with his family, even after working for many years loyally for the same company,well there should be some social net to save this family and give them free medical assistance if needed.

And in times like this, governments should get involved as much and as powerful as possible to stop all this finacial speculation schemes and rumors economies! But it won't happen ever because they are puppets to the same corporation lobbies and interests. Democracy bullocks!

Here in EU we see the governments as the ones to break monopolies - look what happened to microsoft in Europe a few years back and what might happen to google predy soon.

Bubbles are created by lack of government oversight. Deregulation is widely cited as the main cause of the real estate bubble. Repeal of Glass Steagall was instrumental. As for governments causing monopolies, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Antitrust_Act

Well the market is little retarded i guess because it discovered them after the fact that everything is ruined. Credits are given by the banks not the governments. The greed of the banks created the bubble. Bank ceos still got paid well anyway. And as far as being ahead of the game...you know one day somebody will get ahead of you, just like that in a blink of an eye. Its plain statistics and the rule of your game. Stash that gold really well now ; )

@brianluce

Bubbles are created by lack of government oversight

@Ebacherville

the market will discover the real price of real estate.. the reason for the real estate bubble was government programs to give credit to any breathing person.

Thing is that @Ebacherville share Austrian school point of view. @brianluce, you can get good book and look at the arguments they use.

@brianluce

It's cynical to say greed is at root of human nature.

I never said anything about "root of human nature". It is just part of human nature.

@luxis

The system implementation is faulty and not its principles

This is why someone think that simple solutions might work. Nope. System has defects at all levels, from core principles to implementation.

Short or a revolution I think the average man is in trouble. During the bank crisis we should have looked to nature, As we now know it is sometimes better to let a forest burn as it leads to all sorts of new growth. We should have let the banks burn so to speak and got rid of the old growth that is stifling new growth in it's shadow. Also government needs to do it's job and that is not working for big business.

In my opinion if a company is to big to fail it is to big and government should break it up for the good and safety of it's people.

We can't truly know what would have happened. Also nothing promotes change more than when everyone feels the hurt as is some did some didn't not enough to make an out cry for change. Isn't that always how the masses are controlled make sure enough are happy to keep the status quo with a pinch of fear of what could have been to motivate them. Never the less it just backs up my theory if there to big to fail they represent a constant threat to the general well being of a Nation of the world. When it comes to corporations and the public good smaller is the new better.

@brianluce "It's cynical to say greed is at root of human nature."

Only if you view greed as a bad thing. I happen to view greed in a positive way. It is the key to evolution and progress. It's just as natural as wanting to protect your offspring and family.

All our lives we've been indoctrinated to have negative responses to these words like "greed" to manufacture easy scapegoats for our anger. But, the elimination of greed is not the answer. We would stop evolving. Better ways of regulating it seem more logical though.

@dtr

"How is it more dangerous if people think about what the consequences are of what they do, how they live, what they buy and eat, etc on the global scale?"

This will just never work. As soon as one person think about what's best for his family or himself, instead of someone they don't even know on the other side of the world, it will fail.

Sure, some people will connect the dots and understand how everything works on a global scale... must most people just don't posses this kind of thinking. And sadly, the people who don't, out-breed the ones who do.

@brianluce "It'll be just big, bloody redestribution of food and resources. xxxxxxxxxxxx"

"That doesn't sound half bad :)"

Yes it does. If we really redistribute ALL resources and food to EVERYONE on the planet (and continually do this)... we would all live for about 10 years and then collectively die.

If you take resources away from creatives, inventors, and innovators... and give to those who aren't, they won't be able to innovate or create any more jobs, medicine, shelter, ect. Not all humans are equal, people need to accept this. We're all randomly pre-disposed to perform certain tasks better than others... some not at all. This is the BASICS of evolution and genetic variation. We're all different, and the universe is constantly searching for the best and most efficient combination of energy organization. Sentience is interesting in the sense that it is actually possible for us to "choose" to stop this process, but it doesn't mean we should.

Now, I do believe that EVERYONE should have an equal opportunity to PROVE themselves worthy of resources, but it is not written ANYWHERE that all people on the planet should equally have access to all resources collectivity. I don't even understand where this idea came from. It's just not logical at all.

There's a big difference between giving everyone opportunity, and just giving everyone everything.

@bwhitz

You got all that wrong! Greed is not bringing the progress its always regressing things back even if it seems it goes further.

Let me guess you are one of the lucky ones - you are rich and living in the highly advanced western world that has the right to fuck everybody and everything up, correct? what is next? your are white and you have more rights the the other races...since we are not equal correct?

Now, don't you worry about the redistribution of resources to everyone, it is never going to happen and any similar attempt in the past has failed very badly.

Still, social justice is imperative for a civilized society and by social justice I mean the basic necessities i have listed earlier. Nothing more ,nothing less!

btw, your culture(mine as well) that is the western world is based on some values and greed has a very clean cut meaning within the codes of this culture, without any preaching or religious connotations, here :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

About the consequences:

Exactly your type of thoughts is what brings more trouble, since we never care about the results of our actions and we only thing "locally". I am not saying we should forget about the immediate environment and needs but we should consider the others as well.

Good luck in your greed based progress!

It's often been said and I believe it,"...... that if all the wealth (money) in the world was collected and distributed evenly amongst all persons, within 5 years it would be back in the hands of the original persons that held it in the same portions.......

So we're fucked anyway.

Presumably that theory is based on the idea that the people who control everything do so because they're inherently superior -- at least in terms of making money. That's a load of crap if I've ever heard one. Power and wealth get passed from generation to generation via bloodlines and has little to do with merit. A lot of rich people are stupider than Kim Kardashian and don't even have a nice ass to stare at.

Power always require connections, money and knowledge. In various proportions. And, of course, it is natural to have more money, more connections and more knowledge if your family already have them.
With rules and system adjustment you can make it harder to get power by families, clans, etc But this makes system less stable and unnatural, so requires constant control as any flaw in it and all will go back to natural way.

But it's worth mentioning that the MOST stable and simple system then is a hereditary monarchy and I doubt many people want that.

I think people do not know that they actually want.
And no, monarchy is not stable system.
But, may be, we are going to dictatorships, as they act best in the case of resources and trade wars.
Of course, if we'll still have some countries with real soverinity.

everyone wants 'big brother' now, right?

heck, most of my friends have skype on their iphones and cannot have conversation without a facebook interuption...

the sad truth is that everything has happened... long ago,

99% of u.s. citizens would have a nervous breakdown and go insane if the internet went down tomorrow...

people talk of a 'real' world and 'real' economy, but do we even live OR work in a 'real' world anymore???

The president of USA was elected because of his MYSPACE CAMPAIGN...

The internet bogged down to see MICHAEL JACKSON'S FUNERAL..

We have welcomed and nourished this jauggernaut of a miscontented, undereducated society...

not with greed, but a carnal desire to provide more for our loved ones...

so,

It seems, now, there is nothing to believe in, except your dreams.