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Agentina to expropriate oil-and-gas producer YPF SA
  • 39 Replies sorted by
  • There a difference between radical unilateral actions that benefit the people versus radical unilateral actions that benefit the oligarchy. The latter is the status quo. The people have proven quite useful however for fighting wars.

  • From Argentina... most of us are happy with the return of YPF to us :)

  • @Fulgencio "El Pais" (spanish newspaper) is not a left wing newspaper at all, has never been, they are with PSOE, Zapatero, social-democrats, corrupt as them all

  • Possibility of expropriation was part of the contract signed in 1992 between YPF and Argentina in case of "causas de utilidad publica", cases of public interests.

    "La nacionalización, expropiación o cualquier otra medida característica o de efectos similares que pueda ser adoptada por las autoridades de una parte contra las inversiones de la otra parte en su territorio, deberá aplicarse exclusivamente por causas de utilidad pública conforme a las disposiciones legales y en ningún caso deberá ser discriminatoria. La parte que adoptara alguna de estas medidas pagará al inversor o a sus derechohabientes, sin demora injustificada, una indemnización adecuada, en moneda convertible".

  • Everybody nows Argentina has a long history of corruption, but not always and some times things are done right, i hope this is one of those times.

    I live in on one of the largest province of oil production, Neuquen. Tough i dont work on oil industry i live in a city totaly influenced by it, up to last year i think ypf repsol declare how many oil barrels they took and paid accordingly but this amounts were not checked by anyone so they took whatever they wanted and declared whatever they wanted.

    Oil is truly an imporant asset of the people, so im in favour of this decision, how the administration takes care of this asset we have yet to see.

  • Here in Argentina where almost everything is in the private sector its nice to have at least oil nationalized.

  • Here in Spain, we are asking for legal security concept. What do you think in Argentina about this?

  • I live in Spain and am not Spanish (or an Argentine), and I am surprised to see most opinions from Spain on here to be so pro-government official line. From what I have read in the last days, the opinion in Spain is quite divided on this, and most people do not even consider Repsol to be a Spanish company. Less then 25% of their taxes are paid in Spain, whith most going to fiscal havens, and it has been a long time since it was not owned by the Spanish government. I see this as a dispute between Argentina and a multinational privately owned entity, and there has been a lot of anger with the government here putting so much energy in for a private (mostly foreign owned) company in this time when things are going south for so many ACTUAL Spanish citizens. Just wondering really, I have no interest in this dispute other than being exposed to it through the media constantly. However, I do not find it at all surprising that many governments put corporate interests before citizens, especially with any elections so far off... Let them eat cake for the next 4 years I guess...

  • @fulgencio bonds are bonds and oil is oil. BTW, thanks for the link, just saw this; http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303513404577351554212260294.html I find it hard to believe you live in Spain and you have found the Repsol article but not this one... Don't get me wrong, I love it here and I feel the pain of the Spanish people, but the root of the problem here was and is the property bubble and excess debt. When I moved to Barcelona from Amsterdam in 2005, I felt as if I came from a third world country - everyone here had 2 cars, preferably BMWs and "owned" appartments that cost half a million Euros. On the other hand, the salaries were half the Dutch standard or less, but nobody cared - the Dutch 20 year mortgage was 40 year(!) here, and then there are always credit cards. 80% of Germans never had a credit card in 2005 before the internet shopping boom. Every STUDENT I met here has several. There is a lot of noise in the media, and I couldn't give a flying fuck who shot an elephant or how Repsol shares are doing. What is worrying is that the EU bureaucrats are willing to feed this media frenzy so people can feel there will be a "revenge" on Argentina and that there is "them" and "us". So, they have you looking at Argentinian bonds, when you should be looking at IBEX. Just where they want you to be.

  • First of all, I really did not mean to offend, and also I am no high class believe me. I also do not propose any model to anyone and as a foreigner I obviously couldn't vote. I know many people lived in shared flats in BCN even before the crisis but did it ever occur to you that someone must own them and rent them out? Also, what would be a property of 150K in Berlin or Brussels, was 400K here, and is still overpriced. That IS a bubble. And I am not insulting any group or nationality or bringing up some colonial past as if it was a responsability of the current generation. All that tribalism is beside the point. Neither will the Spanish people lose or Argentine people gain from this latest populist maneouvre. It is always the same corporate cats at the top, all the rest is just cannon fodder.

  • @allenswrench Presumably those 400k flats are dropped in value right? What are they going for now?

  • I've heard the Spanish will be retaliating. They'll be holding Messi hostage before the 2014 World Cup.

    This opinion http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/56620#Comment_56620 by Vitaliy pretty much nails it. What a different world would we be living in if that was a common practice... and how many wars would have been avoided...

  • i totally agree @allenswrench us vs them its not gonna go well for anyone, but yeah a goverment blind defending a multinational is madness and spain people should see that, plus both country singed a bilateral agreement i think in 93 giving both countrys the wrigth to expropiate its resources.

    I think that blaming argentina is the best way to deviate attention from spain own crisis.

  • @brianluce around 320K, the drop was big, but still nowhere close to realistic values. That is actually Spain's biggest liability-banks holding all this real estate they can't sell. If they put it all on the market now, EVERYTHING would collapse in a week. Something like a Detroit nation.