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Driftwood Quantum X Settings, Series 2: Sedna A, B, C
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  • @pop24 You have the option of unchecking the Scaling Matrix if you want Panny's own. This has been mentioned many times.

  • yesterday i made a movie in a club again. this time with the original firmware 1.1 at first, the low light quality was superb til 3200 iso. the picture was clear with less noise. hyperprime 1.6 12mm and the 1.8 45mm olympus automatic whitebalance sometimes with a little bit more blue works very fine. neat video or something in post is not necessary. In contrast, the other clubmovie a made with the pictory "orion matrix" patch looks like a great disaster in this low light situation. this is conspicuous. it need to create a monster denoise profil with neat noise to correct it. so the high mbitrate picture and the new matrix look is totaly destroyed after this post. that makes a high quality patch senseless for me. may be that this patch is wonderful for a daylight situation, but for low light like in a club. it is not suitable.

  • That indicates that Panasonic has changed the way the buffers / inner processing work in the latest firmware, maybe to make the HBR mode work properly. I have noticed the same thing.

  • @ Stray, agreed. As I mentioned I can do 720 60p on a class 4 card with Orion, and as long as I keep the ISO under 400 it is fine. My Sandisk 30mbs extreme class 10 has yet to give me a write error no matter the ISO, or other settings.

  • Another good thing about Orion I don't think theres been enough said about, for me it seems to be a lot more stable over a range of class 10 cards than previous GOP1 settings.

  • @sohus @bkmcwd is using stock, and gop3zilla is a great setting that I use pretty often. Contrast depends on your shot/lighting really, and sharpening does too, as well as being lens dependent. I haven't had any reason to push either above zero, but I've shot with them at zero quite often recently with Orion (particularly indoors and with soft lenses). Yeah.. I see a lot of discussions around noise at the moment, disregarding the unsurprising commentary regarding shots at ISO 3200 ;), there is something there. As I said above, I'm not sure about it, it can still be cleaned relatively easily but it is different (quite a lot too) to stock matrix. I know someone did a good test on the red noise channel/banding between stock and Orion that showed very little difference, but I still think there is quite a difference. I'm not saying its worse, its just weird, in that it looks unfamilliar in its behaviour.

    Edit : Ha, actually, the difference in the noise may be firmware and not hack related. You know, I've never ran this new firmware without a hack. But looking at stuff with bkmcwd settings, its more.. er normal noise.

  • People saying that they can record 720 60p with Orion patch in a card class 6 or 4 it´s not a good sign... @cinemon I also notice some noise not also in shadows, but midtones and highlights too where with previous patches I did not, but still have to do more testing. Like @mozes says with the new matrix you may have to relearn using the camera profile settings

  • @stray thanks for the update. What contrast setting do you recommend? I have it at -2 currently but if I understand you right, you see reason to set it to 0 or higher?

    I am also very curious what @cbrandin is working on. He has been very silent and I hope that's for a good reason. Did you jest @bkmwcd GOP3 settings? What matrix is he using? Stock pana or something else? I downloaded the latest version but I need to do some testing with it.

  • @sohus don't hold your breath, unfortunately other comittments have creeped up on me meaning I won't be contributing anything seriously for a few weeks now. Not that I was ever that hot on scientific tests imo anyway. Plenty of other ppl are doing pretty good testing. I am overall happy with the Orion patch, I've not gone near pictoris cos my gut instinct is that that is really much too low a bitrate for a GOP 1 setting for me. I do know though that the new matrix would mitigate this, but I've not seen any output from it that changes my mind, yet. But, I say again, I haven't tested/used it. As far as changes related to the profiles are concerned, contrast settings are key as far as I'm concerned with this matrix, particularly for getting a good starting point for CC/Grading work.

    The truths about film profiles re: shadow detail, highlight rolloff etc that we already established still hold on the whole. But, maybe its just me, but I think the overall response of Nostalgic and Cinema have altered positively. It is, as ever, shot, lighting and glass dependent. Noise does have a very different character with the new matrices, not surprisingly, and I'm really not sure about that yet. In camera NR is still totally arse and to be avoided imo. Personally the most interesting news I've seen recently is @stonebat discovering that the old @cbrandin 66M setting is now stable on this firmware without tweaking any of the 'for testers' settings. So... maybe I should try and get my old 88M setting to actually work with ETC mode ;), strip it down and start again. In terms of IQ, I do like the Orion Matrix, but I'd like to see a long GOP (or at least a 3 or 6) with some alternative matrix options (as I still believe strongly that it holds IQ better than short GOP settings). I believe that @cbrandin is working on that at present, and I look forward to it. More can be done, I think, in terms of maintaining quality/stability, rather than just softening (and the Orion matrix is doing more than just softening) with the control we now have over the scaling tables and other parts of the encoder. Don't look at me though, tweaking those is way beyond my focussing/learning skills in my current situation.

  • If you set for example all to motion, the noise is much more les, so is the detail.
    standard profile

    1920 x 1080 - 3M
    1920 x 1080 - 3M
  • @mozes I am not that technical, simple as that. I can say that I like an image but not explain in technical terms why I prefer one over the other. For me, it is more of a subjective judgement while I am also interested in a more scientific judgement. I know @stray and @cbrandin are really good in the latter category.

    Getting the shots the same is easy. Just save a camera setting to C3 and load it every time you do a comparison.

  • P.S. Thanks to Vitaly, Nick, all the other "settings-makes" and TESTERS TOO for making my GH2 a far better camera.

  • I think the following message by @driftwood should be reported on this thread too:

    Ok, to all those with freezes, etc... we'll lower frame limits and buffers even more. @duartix do the same test on ANY testers setting for the GH2 and tell me the Q youre going to get on death charts. Its the SAME. Its the GH2! You can go massively long gop and then youre in other troubled waters. For CBR style you can also use IQ/Q=0. If you want the whole picture macroblocks to be coded with exactly the same Q then raise your IQ/Q to the high 20s. I'm against the same Q for whole picture theory... that means highlights and shadows get the same Q... not good in my book. Death charts can fail even on stock settings - we've noted this. If the GH2 had more memory, bigger buffers, faster cpu it'd be a different ballgame. For most real world filming situations - filming people, closeups, general docu makes these settings work very well. Other than that, buy a RED. Most importantly, get out and film REAL things now.


  • @Driftwood, let me correct myself. A Toshiba Class 4 !! Anyways, I definitely wasn't complaining about SMBU, but good to hear it's coming back for ptool 3.64. I feel amazingly lucky to have gotten this camera when I did, although I feel like I am racing to get good enough to make full use of its greatness, or rather the greatness that you folks have poured into it. Thanks for all of the work, it is much appreciated.

  • @sohus why not try yourself a comparison between the differences with the driftwood settings.?
    i always save one clip from every setting, and compare them.<br. What i have learn is, they all have it, and not alone the driftwood patches.
    But its more complicated then that.
    I MUST always remember the iso bug, i ALWAYS must set the exact same Whitebalances.
    i MUST Set exact the same profile with exact the same + and -.
    And still, the light off the moment off shooting can ruining it all..
    Then i must use the exact same settings in my editing program.

  • So what are the preliminary finding of the boards: what is the best picture profile for the new Orion? Cinema, Smooth or Nostalgic? I am especially looking forward to an extensive @stray analysis.

    I haven't seen any real results/comparison between the Driftwood and Orion matrixes either? I have managed to tame the 720p50 in Orion v4: set 50fps frame limit to 1800000 and 50FPS FB 2 to 225000. Might go a bit higher but this is the first one that worked for me. Transcend Class 10 Ultimate 32GB. With the latest testing, with this modification, all settings work in Quantum Orion 4b on the Transcend.

    80% work only works in 24L mode HBR and 24H don't span, files not playable in camera when spanning fails 720p50 mode doesn't span, file is playable in camera when spanning fails EX TELE works in all modes

    All tested on my motion death chart with 1/200, ISO1600, F/8 in Nostalgic profile with Daylight WB

  • Thanks for this, im really stoked about these new settings to play with. I do events, so im really interested in the "everyday" patches, specifically "baby Quantum X". I saw others reported this as well, but im noticing tons of noise in most of my outdoor clips. Is this because its starting out with such a complexe scene already - Trees, bushes, and grass? I noticed that in scenes with less details, it seems to have very smooth and clean video. Im using the latest version, with the "deblocking" off. I tried both CBR and VBR at 60p/80%/24p l/h all with noisy results (smooth -2 all).

  • @jhero

    Cinema < Standard < Smooth < Nostalgic is the order of boosting shadow. That might explain more noise from Standard.

  • @mee The 720p of SpanMyBitchUp is soon to get an overhaul...

  • Just a short hand held shot with Orion at 720 60p on EX TELE. Amazingly this was with a Toshiba class 6 16gb card that would crash with spanmybitchup. I will be uploading some MTS Files and a short sequence that this shot goes with soon. 

  • @jhero Thanks for the Cinema -2 to +2 tests. Excellent.

  • Thank you!

    Just like to say, I think the Orion matrix settings are remarkable! There are some of us out here who think the image is fantastic! Might try for an even less sharp image when there a few more instructions on matrix tweaking... Thanks again :)

  • Thanks Nick.

  • Thank you for all your hard work driftwood! Looking forward to new matrixes

  • *** NEWS ***

    A new matrix and deblocking 'VY Canis Majoris' is being worked on to analyse the various stages of deblocking in INTRA settings. Issued 16th March 2012

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