@kinvermark

You mean that right around 2018 they started doing all this (looking at the chart)?

And "real fighters for people democracy" in the form of CNN and so on started their holy fight as soon as their brave correspondents opened their eyes on the issues? No?

Looking at the US media focus it seems like Libya now is quite close to perfection considering democracy standards :-)

@Vitaliy_Kiselev

1) CNN is just a news show. I don't watch it. There are many, many attempts to influence us today... including small websites run by a guy with a Personal View :) It's all propaganda in one form or another.

2) USA is only one country in the western world and the ideas of its citizens are fragmented and polarized. There is no single USA attitude even amongst the capitalist elite that you claim control what kind of underwear I have on.

3) You want to know about China: ask a "Chinese" guy from Hong Kong what they think. That is real truth. They are sh*$ scared of a oppressive totalitarian dictatorship hiding in capitalist clothing. I feel sorry for them.

1) Disagree. A broader definition of propaganda is important in dealing with an internet driven world. e.g., Facebook and Cambridge Analytica scandal.

2) The idea that millions of people are taking to the streets in violent protest about "bank and business practice" is absurd. It's about oppression and fear of loss of their way of life. Hong Kong is not China. They're in full panic mode now.

3) I am not American. Not that that should matter.

Most people in the West know absolutely nothing about China :) Actually they just repeat phrases they heard on the news or things their friends tell them. For example, "Hong Kong is not China." from signs carried by " HK protestors" If Hong Kong is not China what is it? Still part of the British Empire? Not even India or Canada is part of the British Empire, although they still are considered Commonwealth. If Hong Kong is not China, then Guam, Hawaii and Puerto Rico are not USA! Neither is Texas, California etc. All stolen from their people like the British stole Hong Kong. Since the US has 900 military bases around the world, I guess "The World is USA! " But Hong Kong is not China?

Some may be peaceful protestors, but there are Rioters, Agents Provocateurs who are extremely violent. What is not shown on Western media is that they carry steel pipes, corrosive liquid, molotov cocktails and have been attacking police with them. And destroying government property. Some elderly people have been injured or died after being attacked for arguing with the "peaceful protestors". If this happened in the US, SWAT teams or the National Guard would move in. In Canada, when the FLQ, Quebec separatists ( Quebec is not Canada!) became violent, Trudeau Senior declared the War Measures Act, troops and tanks rolled into the streets to put an end to it.

The Extradition Bill does not even apply to the young rioters. It was actually requested by Taiwan to extradite a Hong Kong man who murdered his Taiwanese girlfriend. Since Hong Kong has extradition agreements with almost every country in the world except China, HK decided to add China to the list even though China initially cautioned them not to do it at this time. Nevertheless, the China section of the bill applies to mainland Chinese who commit crimes that flee to Hong Kong. The West doesn't care about anyone being extradited to China. Not mentioned in Western media, is that the bill would more importantly affect US operatives in HK:

After a landmark operation in 2010-12, Beijing had essentially destroyed the backbone of the US intelligence network in the Chinese mainland. It had been responsible for stirring and guiding the Tiananmen tragedy in 1989 and subversive activities in Xinjiang, Tibet and other parts of China. Nearly five years later, even NYT reported the CIA debacle

That left the CIA with one last foothold on Chinese territory -- Hong Kong. With the protections afforded by One Country, Two Systems (OCTS), America’s agents would be beyond the reach of China’s anti-spy forces. The US consulate in HK, which looks like a fortress, became Washington’s biggest anywhere. It now held the CIA station responsible for all China. US agents mixed freely with equally numerous comrades from the UK consulate and Taiwan’s unofficial office.

A HK-mainland extradition law could have changed all that. Without one, no person in HK could be extradited to China for trial. If passed, it would have enabled the dispatch to the mainland of people wanted there for serious crimes. The raging debate on the bill focused on its effect on Hong Kongers -- 99.9% of whom realistically would not have been affected.

The public brouhaha missed a crucial point, however. Under OCTS, Hong Kong has full autonomy except in foreign affairs and national defence/security. Those areas come under the central government’s purview. So if Beijing were to demand extradition for anyone in HK charged under mainland law with offenses linked to foreign affairs or national security -- like spying or subversion -- the local government would have no say in the matter. Extradition would be automatic. The new law would have been a Damocles’ sword over the heads of all HK-based spies from the US, UK and Taiwan. Such a scenario would explain why the anti-Beijing forces pulled out all the stops to derail Hong Kong’s extradition law.

And of course, the many leaders of the HK protests have met either with former CIA director Pompeo or their handlers. A few leaders have already fled to the US with US visas.

Hong Kong's blackshirted "Thugs for Democracy" are being trained by a Serbia-based NGO called CANVAS (Center for Applied NonViolent Action and Strategies). The group claims its "big mission is to explain to the world what a powerful tool nonviolent struggle is when it comes to achieving freedom, democracy and human rights." But its record of operations (Ukraine, Egypt, Tunisia, Georgia, Syria, Venezuela, etc.) suggests it uses the word "nonviolent" very flexibly. CANVAS's own senior people have admitted they take money from the CIA..

CANVAS provides very detailed training in both field operations (combat, protests, logistics) and ideology (freedom, democracy and human rights). Many of these are reflected in the behavior of the blackshirts and their attacks on HK police..

@jleo

So, you support the Chinese government against the Hong Kong protestors?

Wow. I am not big fan of Chinese government, really

OK, so we do agree. :) Maybe you too are a victim of Western media bias? Good chat.

President Donald Trump tweeted on August 13 that he “can’t imagine why” the United States has been blamed for the chaotic protests that have gripped Hong Kong.

Trump’s befuddlement might be understandable considering the carefully managed narrative of the US government and its unofficial media apparatus, which have portrayed the protests as an organic “pro-democracy” expression of grassroots youth. However, a look beneath the surface of this oversimplified, made-for-television script reveals that the ferociously anti-Chinese network behind the demonstrations has been cultivated with the help of millions of dollars from the US government, as well as a Washington-linked local media tycoon.

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/08/17/hong-kong-protest-washington-nativism-violence/#more-13591

How much does Hong Kong rely on China economically?

from Joseph Wang, lives in Hong Kong Chief Scientist, Bitquant

Totally reliant. In addition to electricity, water, and food, pretty much every job in Hong Kong is dependent on some aspect of the Mainland. Every finance job is reliant on moving money into the mainland. Every job in shipping and trade is reliant on moving goods out of the mainland.

And this is historical. The British took Hong Kong because they needed a base to do their trading with Guangzhou. Once the Communists took over in 1949, they left Hong Kong alone so that they could have some link with the capitalist world.

@kinvermark

Yes, free press, I remember

Police estimated that 128,000 people were at Sunday’s rally

Same day, Trump

”Journalism” has reached a new low in the history of our Country. It is nothing more than an evil propaganda machine for the Democrat Party. The reporting is so false, biased and evil that it has now become a very sick joke..

You mean that HK need more of this?

So I point out an article written by a legitimate news correspondent on the ground in Hong Kong from a totally reputable Canadian source, and you start waffling on about some crap from Trump.

Trump is 100x times closer to reality about press :-) He does not like this evil propaganda machine being used against him, but is using exactly this machine against any company of country that oppose US economics interests.

For me it looks same as typical US press. Article is made like some copy&paste from hundreds of other articles including mangling with numbers (around 15x times!). Of course you can think inside (just for fun) that prostitute is loving you with all her heart, but it is not reality. I hope you grasp the concept.

As I told, if you expect on PV level of discussion ala typical comment on other sites - you will be greatly upset.

But if you will find courage to read, spend time and explore economics, basics of philosophy it will be more and more interesting.

Yasha Levine @yashalevine

HAHAHAHA! Twitter will rely on Freedom House, funded through one of the CIA’s NGO projects, will advise @Twitter on who is and isn’t “state-controlled.”

You can’t make this shit up.

How will we define state-controlled media in this context?

This policy will apply to news media entities that are either financially or editorially controlled by the state. It has been informed by established academic and civil society leaders in this space. Sources include Reporters Without Borders Press Freedom Index, Freedom House, the Economist Intelligence Unit Democracy Index, the European Journalism Centre’s Media Landscapes Report, the Committee to Protect Journalists, and UNESCO's framework to assess media development and independence.

We will be making policy determinations on the basis of critical issues of media freedom and independence, such as control of editorial content, financial ownership, influence or interference over broadcasters, editors, and journalists, direct and indirect exertion of political pressure, and/or control over the production and distribution process.

This policy will not apply to entities that are solely dedicated to entertainment, sports, and travel content. However, if the content is mixed with news, it will be prohibited.

cburnett_

Ah, Freedom House, the NGO whose only major criticism of US Media in 70 years was "not being enthusiastic enough" about the Vietnam War.

Holly ‏@HollyBlomberg

Control of information is part of our “managed democracy” — totalitarianism cosplaying as free society https://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/our_managed_democracy.htm

3Joes @cphanellq

We will now be drenched in freedom.

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/01/08/cias-hidden-hand-in-democracy-groups/