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Canada: Housing prices
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  • ... and what is that reason? Briefly.

  • I fixed link in top post, click on it.

  • I read it, but it is not clear. So please explain briefly what you say the reason for this is.

  • @kinvermark

    Mostly Chinese money and Chinese people, plus usual credit bubble inside.

  • Ok. So where does all the money for this credit bubble come from? Is it from profits from Chinese factories, etc. that have been re-invested in foreign land holdings?

  • @kinvermark

    Chinese are Chinese (most of the money are stolen from workers or just completely stolen by management and owners) and credit bubble also helps inside countries. As prices start to rise lot of people and banks want to get profits on this and worsen things.

  • So, I have lived in Vancouver most of my life and seen housing prices increase by 10X. There have been many waves of immigration from Asia, and many people have blamed foreign investors for these high prices. Our provincial government pandered to this common feeling by putting a 15% penalty tax on foreign buyers. It didn't work. This year we are set for more double digit price increases. I know from talking to Australians and New Zealanders that similar penalty taxes on foreign buyers have been unsuccessful. Personally, I believe foreign investment has an effect, but a relatively small one, and honestly, Canada needs foreign capital to come in to the country to keep the exchange rate balanced, as almost all the goods we buy are imported. (So now it is harder for me to buy fancy gimbals and such :) - so sad )

    The amount of money lent into property markets is so huge, that your "Chinese owners" would have to steal not just workers' money, but their socks, shoes, and underwear too! That really is not how it works.

    As I have said before, our modern monetary system gives private banks the ability to create money electronically, with no requirement for reserves, deposits, etc. It is really NEW MONEY. Most people think that the central bank (e.g. Bank of Canada) does this. Wrong. The central bank prints notes and stamps coins, but this is only a tiny fraction of our money. Same is true in other countries.

    So I agree with you when you say "banks want to get profits on this and worsen things." That is the truth, and until we recognize that our banking system is faulty we will continue to have these really bad social consequences.

    Please read and watch videos at www.positivemoney.org if you really want to understand and help. Thanks!

    PS. @Vitaliy_Kiselev, you mentioned in an earlier thread that these ideas are nothing new and you were right. Sort of. The same problem of the banking system existed in the 18th century, and laws were passed to fix it. But those laws only apply to paper notes and coins. The modern electronic banking system is in fact a throwback to those 18th century banks, and now is pretty much totally unregulated, with all manner of clever schemes used to make money without ever producing anything useful for society ( e.g. mortgage backed derivative securities, etc.) After the 2008 crash, the banking industry came up with the "Basel Accords" but these are guidelines only, not laws, and are only designed to protect the banks from bringing each other down - they don't stop bubbles from bursting and everyone getting "soaked."

  • I know from talking to Australians and New Zealanders that similar penalty taxes on foreign buyers have been unsuccessful.

    It is wrong view, as whole tax was made just to get some cut but not prevent sales. Make it 150% and track any transfers and you'll see effect instantly.

    The amount of money lent into property markets is so huge, that your "Chinese owners" would have to steal not just workers' money, but their socks, shoes, and underwear too! That really is not how it works.

    Yes, this is how it works. Normal management and owner can steal around 2x-3x of whole salary fund per month.

    As I have said before, our modern monetary system gives private banks the ability to create money electronically, with no requirement for reserves, deposits, etc. It is really NEW MONEY. Most people think that the central bank (e.g. Bank of Canada) does this. Wrong. The central bank prints notes and stamps coins, but this is only a tiny fraction of our money. Same is true in other countries.

    Btw this theory comes extremely back into history, like early 20th century and elements in 19th. usually used by capitalists to shift blame.

    So I agree with you when you say "banks want to get profits on this and worsen things." That is the truth, and until we recognize that our banking system is faulty we will continue to have these really bad social consequences.

    Nope, nothing wrong with bank system. It is same like blame intestines for being dirty, they are made for this.

    Please read and watch videos at www.positivemoney.org if you really want to understand and help. Thanks!

    Good advice DO NOT read and watch this. As it is huge waste of your time and produce nothing usable.

  • To use the same "deny everything" argument tactic as you:

    1. No, because foreign buyers aren't the problem.
    2. Don't be absurd.
    3. What the heck are you talking about?
    4. You are contradicting yourself.
    5. How do you know? You clearly don't understand what I am trying to patiently educate you about. Are you a serious person or is this all just a big joke to you?

    If your only point in life is simply to argue and win, then "Good advice DO NOT read and watch this. As it is huge waste of your time and produce nothing usable." , will be your epitaph.

    I think you can do better! You have created a place for expression and discussion. Great! Don't kill it by impulsively contradicting everything that doesn't' immediately fall into your "communism or nothing" ideal.

  • I think you can do better! You have created a place for expression and discussion. Great! Don't kill it by impulsively contradicting everything that doesn't' immediately fall into your "communism or nothing" ideal.

    You kind of fall into mouse trap here, I mean for your brain.

    This is place to rise your opinions into knowledge. It is not my fault that communists theory properly explains how things actually works in capitalism.

    Do not worry, I passed your stage also, just long time ago (I mean all this banks and central banks theories thing). So it is not that I want you to change your views to something opposite, I just ask to look for upgraded firmware for your brains, it was released more than a century ago and you still use crappy buggy one that produce bluish blurry picture instead reality.

  • Obvious problem: Too much explanation about how capitalism fails, without explanation/proof that communism works. Anyone born before the end of the cold war will find "communism works" statement hard to swallow. (Even allowing for American brainwashing against "commies.")

    Better, but still faulty programming....because you assume human social behavior is rational and deterministic and constant and black/white and all or nothing.

    At this point in history if you suggest communism or nothing then the answer will be nothing. Then no progress of any kind will take place. Suffering continues needlessly. So I would rather use the "crappy, buggy, old" firmware to make some positive change for the coming generations instead of waiting for firmware 2.0 that never arrives.

  • Obvious problem: Too much explanation about how capitalism fails, without explanation/proof that communism works. Anyone born before the end of the cold war will find "communism works" statement hard to swallow. (Even allowing for American brainwashing against "commies.")

    Again, not a problem. Just you need to pass present stage and all will be very clear.

    At this point in history if you suggest communism or nothing then the answer will be nothing. Then no progress of any kind will take place. Suffering continues needlessly. So I would rather use the "crappy, buggy, old" firmware to make some positive change for the coming generations instead of waiting for firmware 2.0 that never arrives.

    Answer won't be nothing, and it is the beauty of social nature. Society improves and it becomes harder and harder for capitalists of this world to keep it in regressive state. Removing capitalists who at this stage become cancer tumor of society requires operation (as, unfortunately cancer tumors do not usually go away without causing death), but it is required for normal living of society. Your idea to live with tumor a little longer so it'll cause more and more damage is bad.

  • About to get on plane to Ireland; will contemplate your point of view over a few Guiness. :) Slainte!

  • I see the horrible sides of present capitalistic system. I can also agree that it is not working in it self, for its own nature: its not only a question that it has downsides and "bad sides" : it is its own nature that implies the exploitation of men over men and present generations over future generations. exploitation of resources etc. It is bad for the planet, it is bad for mankind. It is illogical, of it was a software it would be upgraded a long time ago. At this point maybe only a bloody revolution can eradicate this cancer. BUT ... all this being said... How can the communism be a viable alternative? It was proposed by smart people ok, but that was a century ago! It was a therory, ideally and philosophically perfect compared to capitalism ... but we SAW what happened when it was put o reality! Mass poverty, exploitation of the masses by the burocrats, in every conintrues these theories have been tested and by everyone who tested them. Communism proved not to be a viable option. Maybe it will be in the future, when the monkey-man will get better. But for now it is necessary to find something else IMHO. Or otherwise please explain why communism, a wonderful theory, performed so badly in reality. And capitalism, a horrible and illogical and contradictory theory moved the masseuses a little on ( voyages, médical cures, a light form of democracy, a pension for retired people, mass edication, a sort of rights for women and so way.,,,,)

  • How can the communism be a viable alternative? It was proposed by smart people ok, but that was a century ago! It was a therory, ideally and philosophically perfect compared to capitalism ... but we SAW what happened when it was put o reality! Mass poverty, exploitation of the masses by the burocrats, in every conintrues these theories have been tested and by everyone who tested them. Communism proved not to be a viable option.

    Not, communism not proved to be non viable. Quite reverse.

    Btw good film about capitalism being non viable (from previous formation POV):

    Socialism (first stage of communism) actually proved best society to live for working class members. Considering popular myths about burocrats - in all, 100% of ex socialist countries capitalism not only dismantled advanced manufacturing, good education, available medicine and all else, but it also gave huge rise to burocrats, and if you add here horrible transactions costs common for capitalism, efficiency dropped very much.

    Things that you enlisted actually come not from your own knowledge, but directly from the mouth of the ruling class. Somehow you assumed that they and media have same interests here with most of the people, working people. No, this smiling, hand shaking politicians, tech companies owners and attractive media divas are no less your enemies than Nazis top guys.

    Yep socialism we saw was not perfect (nothing is perfect btw), but actually not because it was socialism, but because it did not move fast enough from capitalism. It is same as planes, it never happens that you get 747 as first passenger liner to be made. But people learn and improve. Claiming non viability based on this is stupid.

    And capitalism, a horrible and illogical and contradictory theory moved the masseuses a little on ( voyages, médical cures, a light form of democracy, a pension for retired people, mass edication, a sort of rights for women and so way.,,,,)

    Horrible thing here that all things you enlisted appeared in capitalism only due to.. fear from coming or already existing socialism.
    So, the only thing you can blame founders is in underestimating this beast intention to live while destroying people lifes. But actually they warned about it openly and clearly. Cancer is also hard to cure. But the more knowledge people gain - the more they can do about it.

  • Nothing has changed since Vancouver was incorporated back in 1886. In our first year, a downtown lot was selling for roughly $400, which received outcries of price gouging, but hey, the railway was coming! In 1891, the same lot was selling for roughly $1,000. By the turn of the 20th century, that same downtown lot was selling for $4,000. The value of the land was doubling roughly every five to 10 years, and it’s never stopped.

    Worse still, McGugan says, Canada tries to pin the blame on foreigners. "Really? It's not foreigners who are propelling the lunacy in rust-belt towns like Windsor, Ontario, where prices soared 20 per cent over the past year. It's not foreigners who nearly doubled the debt load of Canadian households over the past generation, from 87 per cent of our disposable income in 1990 to 167 per cent now."

    RADIO PROGRAM: Click LISTEN ( 5 min 59 sec)

    http://www.cbc.ca/radio/the180/canadians-are-housing-addicts-vegetarianism-dies-up-north-and-make-it-easier-for-the-homeless-to-vote-1.4141415/this-is-an-intervention-canada-you-re-addicted-to-real-estate-1.4141721

  • @jleo

    To remove veil here you need to just fully remove money from equation.

    Just replace it with work hours for average Canadian worker to get same thing, use average hour cost for this.
    Thing that you really see here is redistribution of things among classes, with working class getting less and less for same work and ruling class (including Chinese guys) getting more and more while working less and less.

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    42% of respondents said they don’t think they can cover basic expenses over the next year without going deeper into more debt. The same number said they're within $200 of not being able to cover monthly expenses.

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  • Seems like limit was reached

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  • And capitalism, a horrible and illogical and contradictory theory moved the masseuses a little on

    This is pretty much the opposite of reality. Nothing is more illogical than Communism's main tenet "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"... as it assumes that "need" magically can be met without first producing. It's really an inversion of how reality works... as per most of Marx's theories. He accurately describes reality, but then simply asserts "it SHOULD be the opposite!". As if describing something has magical powers to undo it. Humans work on the incentive of conserving as much energy as possible, for maximum return. Simply put, nobody will build a house for 12 hours a day if you can simply receive a house for doing nothing... and thus, no more houses will be built.

    I've spent years debating this, but it's really a simple argument: If you can just have stuff... nobody will make anymore stuff. It's really that simple.

    If what you are allowed to take is not directly tied to what you produce, over-consumption will take place. This has been the problem with the US since it started dabbling with pseudo-Socialism the last 60-100 years. US has given to it's people what has not been produced (semi-socialist programs) with the promise that future generations will pay it off (which they didn't) and now must engage in endless expansionist wars to keep kicking the can down the road... all for the drug of "free-stuff".

    Now, if by "capitalism" you actually mean Cronyism, Regulatory capture and debt-based money. Then yes, I'm totally with you. These need to go. Government should have as little control over the economy as possible and should never pass laws that favor one private entity over the other. But this is EXACTLY what happens as economics becomes more centralized. The ability to buy off fewer people, who control more, grows exponentially. Just as the separation of Church and State was necessary... the separation of Economics and State must happen as well. Again, maybe not possible... but we've seen the US (and others) get pretty close before.

    Things that you enlisted actually come not from your own knowledge, but directly from the mouth of the ruling class.

    The ruling class is pushing Socialism and Neo-Communism now. I don't know how anybody could consume and Western-based media and not come to any other conclusion. Google and YouTube have been de-monitizing "pro-capitalist" content for a few years now. Anonymous employees at Google have come forward with information that Google is deleting anti-Communism and anti-Socalist search results. Half of academia is openly Marxist. I was taught Socialism in my public-school. I was taught that private-industry and capitalism is bad. I was a typical Socialist in college. You REALLY need to research things on your own to get a pro-capitalist take on the world.

  • @bwhitz

    Again?

    It is so sad to read this. Not because you write something I do not like, but because you write something where you do not still understand meaning of basic things.

    You have some parts pulled from poor Austrian guys, but you can't talk about centralization and government on their level.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    but because you write something where you do not still understand meaning of basic things.

    ...and those are? If you point them out, I can clarify... or you might show me the errors of my ways. My posts are brief, so maybe my explanations seem vague... and I tend to think faster than I type. I only post in between other activities and such. Is the Communism were talking about not the "Stateless, Classless, Society" as laid out by Marx? If so, achieving that by first giving the State control over everything... and hoping the "withering of the state" happens after that is highly illogical.

    You have some parts pulled from poor Austrian guys, but you can't talk about centralization and government on their level.

    I don't really even know what this means? Like... as in I'm not writing books? Or they explain themselves better? Probably. I mean, I'm writing posts in like 5 mins blocks...

    But yes, like I said... I started out as a Socialist... then I started reading other stuff out of curiosity and the Austrian school made allot more sense. The biggest philosophical point being that human activity is not viewed as a "zero-sum-game", as it in Socialist philosophies. This was the biggest realization that turned me away from the Left wing economics.