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Anti-Trump Protests
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  • majoraxismajoraxis

    Petitioning for the electoral college to not vote as they are instructed to do undermines the idea of a free election. If the election were based on the popular vote Trump would have campaigned differently to try to win the popular vote. Would he have? It doesn't matter because in America we choose our President by electoral college. Trump is going to our next President like it or not. At some point the protests will end and people will realize that the time to have protested in mass all over the country like now, was at the DNC and the person to lead the fight was Bernie, but he refused to stand up against corruption in his own party and that's when the election was lost.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @bannedindv

    You are fully into it. Pain for me to see it.

    No need to spend your time on puppets, they are actually same, just have different sex and agenda. Better read some smart people.

  • bannedindvbannedindv

    Trump was one of the loudest Trumpeters of the "Birther" movement - trying to rage against Obama being elected, calling for a march on Washington, claiming Obama was not a US citizen to incite anger and potentially violence against him. Trump hired many vendors and failed to pay them contractually agreed on wages. Trump plans on removing safeguards on the environment to open drilling in US Lands. It's not just Trump who poses a problem - it's the Right Wing Agenda seeking to limit the social rights of the individual, cut taxes for the wealthy, cut regulations on Banks and other institutions which seek to harm the average citizen for their financial gain. These are some of the things I don't like about the possibility of a Trump regime. The only reason I bring up my desires is that it had been stated in this thread earlier that protesters don't know what they want or what they are protesting for. Well, I'm not out on the street right now, but I would say my protest is to prevent a man of what I consider poor character, and who has alliances with evil, if not actually evil himself from sending the US and potentially much of the world into a dark ages for the middle class / working class - who actually enabled his election. All I'm saying is - it's time to reject the electoral system or change it, and I'm open to shutting things down in order to take a revote or recount. I think under closer scrutiny, or If we did a second election cycle with same candidates outcome would be different. Popular vote has Hillary winning.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clintons-popular-vote-victory-is-unprecedented-and-still-growing/

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    It is not about left or right, it is about having feelings and desires.

  • theconformisttheconformist

    "100% serious. Maybe this won't work but this is the outcome I desire."

    The modern American left, folks.

  • bannedindvbannedindv

    100% serious. Maybe this won't work but this is the outcome I desire.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Here's an outcome that I want, and I signed the petition - prevent electoral college from casting their ballots for trump.

    You are serious?

  • bannedindvbannedindv

    Here's an outcome that I want, and I signed the petition - prevent electoral college from casting their ballots for trump:

    http://bit.ly/2g3D9ot

    Feel free to share with any US Citizen who feels Trump should not hold the office of president.

  • robertGLrobertGL

    Wait.. Trump has been elected president??!?

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    If Hilary would have won, republicans would have been too busy working to have time to protest.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @tonalt

    Yep, you need give him a chance:

    John Bolton
    Trump will rebuild the military that has suffered under #Obama

    This guys will fight for peace. :-)

    @_OZ

    Can you provide me any examples of protests where people did not understand that they clearly want to be done and where they had any positive outcome for them?

  • _OZ_OZ

    These things are not linear, nor trackable, nor quantifiable, so assessing the value of public protest is beyond anyone's measure, historically.

    You can look at broad strokes of public protest, the general climate of mass movements and public attitude toward policy, and try to make some connections, but the truth is that even when there is a very specific agenda such as MLK's march on Washington for civil rights, or women's suffrage marches during the 20th century, it is all interconnected with countless meetings, gatherings, discussions, arguments, that came before. This stuff is way too complicated to assess. When a tipping point is finally reached on an issue, or pressuring policy makers has finally caused a decisive change, no one actually knows how to measure the buildup and what parts contributed to what degree. It's like trying to predict behavior of life within the ocean. It's simply way too large of a data set to judge.

    One thing is certain, people don't organize for specific change (non-circus) without first talking to each other. In a very atomized world, the very act of getting together in a shared physical space can facilitate new and lasting relationships. No guarantees, but it is one of many steps along the way of efforts toward influencing policy from the ground level.

  • tonalttonalt

    Just give Trump a chance, ok?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I agree - it's better to be fully informed, and also be fully focused on outcomes. But even though some of these people may only have loose ideas of "freedom" or "anti-corruption", it still has some value in bringing pressure to bear on those in power, along with furthering the focus among people in general. Yes, some of these people take a "circus" approach, but they do bring value.

    If you are going to streets you need to understand that you want to achieve. Just in real terms. Problem with all this circus is that none of it ever achieved anything real, hence the circus term.

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @VK I agree - it's better to be fully informed, and also be fully focused on outcomes. But even though some of these people may only have loose ideas of "freedom" or "anti-corruption", it still has some value in bringing pressure to bear on those in power, along with furthering the focus among people in general. Yes, some of these people take a "circus" approach, but they do bring value.

    @theconformist I agree - a lot of protesting often seemingly leads to nothing. But some of it does lead to some level of improvement in things.

    Taking @theconformist 's point a bit furhter. He said "For protesters it is all about the racist (sexist/misogynist/homophobe/islamophobe) things... That is my point.", and I think that is important. Although @VK intelligently points out the need to focus on economics, it is also important to address any politician's racist/prejudiced speech and policies, because 1) it's wrong by itself, and 2) racist/prejudiced speech and policy are often used by those politicians who want utilize state power for bad reasons, whether it's outright facsicm or it's semi-fascism "lite" with nationalist language that is utilized to justify corrupt elements of capitalism linked to politics.

    Hitler was naked power. The Roosevelts, Clintons, Bushs, Obamas utilize finesse and rhetorical speech ("I'm here to help" they always say...but somehow they become rich as they help the big businessmen become rich). Trump is a hybrid in that he utilizes both. People are reacting because they hear his speech and his disregard for many people...and it feels like naked power. They should react and protest. They should have also done so just as strongly against the all the previous generations of politicians.

    Good discussion lads - now it's time to get back to work!

  • theconformisttheconformist

    @vitaliy_kiselev

    Yes, should be working on forming new American left. Precious little time for progressive candidates to get on state/local election ballots for 2017, primary Democrat incumbents for congressional elections in 2018.. they only care about winning Presidency in 2020 (likely with another Clinton-type) meanwhile conservatives control EVERYTHING.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    For protesters it is all about the racist (sexist/misogynist/homophobe/islamophobe) things... That is my point.

    May be. But my point is that all this people are doing is walking and wasting time.

  • theconformisttheconformist

    @vitaliy_kiselev

    For protesters it is all about the racist (sexist/misogynist/homophobe/islamophobe) things... That is my point.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @theconformist

    Just drop all this racist things. It is not serious.

    Focus on reality and real economic stuff.

  • theconformisttheconformist

    @matt_gh2 "Not everyone has the ability, the inclination, and the time to do a lot of reading, thinking, discussing, analyzing, research, economics, psychology, and sociology study that is needed to know things rigorously. That doesn't mean their instinctual reactions have no value."

    In most cases, it does.

  • theconformisttheconformist

    @vitaliy_kiselev

    "What if, one day, there is a candidate who hates black people so much that he doesn’t go on a campaign stop to a traditionally black church in Detroit, talk about all of the contributions black people have made to America, promise to fight for black people, and say that his campaign is about opposing racism in all its forms? What if there’s a candidate who does something more like, say, go to a KKK meeting and say that black people are inferior and only whites are real Americans?

    We might want to use words like “openly racist” or “openly white supremacist” to describe him. And at that point, nobody will listen, because we wasted “openly white supremacist” on the guy who tweets pictures of himself eating a taco on Cinco de Mayo while saying “I love Hispanics!”"

    If in 4 years, the US is not the dystopian hellscape these protesters imagine they are trying to prevent, they may very well believe it is on account of their efforts, but no one will ever take them seriously again.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @theconformist

    Any point to read it all?

    This cat of theater play ended, now it can be only interesting to some perverted art researchers.

  • theconformisttheconformist

    On Trump's "open racism": http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wolf/

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    There may be some truth to the idea that many of these people don't know the full, detailed, intelligent, intellectual, rigorous analysis on the intersection of economics, politics, and culture etc. But most importantly they are correct...they smell something bad...something immoral...and they dont like it...and they try to do the best they can to fight back.

    Well, if you go out into some protest you must have some idea about result of it. Otherwise it is nothing more than circus act.

    Problem here that they do not only have no idea about their interest, they have not even slightest sign of wanting to get any result from it all.

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @Sangye Your point holds up. @VK There may be some truth to the idea that many of these people don't know the full, detailed, intelligent, intellectual, rigorous analysis on the intersection of economics, politics, and culture etc. But most importantly they are correct...they smell something bad...something immoral...and they dont like it...and they try to do the best they can to fight back.

    (Not everyone has the ability, the inclination, and the time to do a lot of reading, thinking, discussing, analyzing, research, economics, psychology, and sociology study that is needed to know things rigorously. That doesn't mean their instinctual reactions have no value.)

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