Panasonic GX80, GX85, or even GX7 Mark II in Japan

markr041

@scotchtape "and even on gx85 you can only get 24p if you use avchd."

No, you can shoot 50p (60p), 50i (60i), 25p (30p) or 24p when AVCHD is selected. See the GX85 manual (or the camera menus).

AVCHD uses standard AVC H264 video compression and AC3 (Dolby Digital) audio compression. Nothing odd about that. The file structure is odd, but if you just get and use the video files (you can forget all the other folders and files in them) they will work fine in almost any editor. You can move the video files anywhere you want. And you can certainly rename them, but not the extension (as is usual). The only exception is if the (continuous) video shot is very long and broken into separate files, in which case you may need to use the file structure.

MP4 and MOV files also use AVC H264 compression, but different audio compression (like AAC). There are variants of H264, but no one has shown they make a great difference. So worrying about using MP4 or AVCHD seems unwarranted. There are, however, differences in bitrates that may matter. AVCHD has restrictions on those.

4CardsMan

@ scotchtape - Now I get it. FCPX cuts through the AVCHD structure and offers the files directly in its import browser, which is why I never experienced the problem. When directly viewing the files with something else, OSX does force the user to navigate, but it marks the container as a package. This is like finding your way through a suburb that you don't know - follow the speed bumps.

scotchtape

If you read my comment properly it means you can't shoot 24p in mp4...

Anyways I used the g6 and avchd in a project and had problems with audio, not to mention the many other people who do run into problems using it (many other posts all over the net).

markr041

@scotchtape You are right; I misread what you said - sorry. But blaming the problems that your software (or operating system) has with using AVCHD on AVCHD itself is misplaced. AVCHD is a universal standard (e.g., BluRay); the audio codec AC3 is a universal standard. Neither is some obscure proprietary setting exclusive to Panasonic. Software should be able to work with video standards. My software has no problems dealing with it. So, it's a limitation of the software you are using (I am assuming it is not you). Why do you not blame your software?

DrDave

I shoot 24p in mp4.

scotchtape

For 4K, but not 1080p

MP4*[4K] 3840x2160: 4K/30p 100Mbps, 4K/24p 100Mbps
MP4*[Full HD] 1920x1080: FHD/60p 28Mbps, FHD/30p 20Mbps
MP4*[HD] 1280x720: HD/30p 10Mbps
MP4*[VGA] 640x480: VGA/30p 4Mbps

http://shop.panasonic.com/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/lumix-interchangeable-lens-ilc-cameras/DMC-GX85K.html

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/camera/om/dmc-gx85_en_om.pdf

Tron

Just received the GX85, very impressed with the build quality and stabilization performance thus far. My favorite zoom is the Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 and to be able to run it stabilized for video is just awesome. Can't wait to try it with the 40-150mm.

DrDave

@scotchtape If you want good 1080p and MP4, then 4K downsampled to 1080p will absolutely give you superior 1080p in all respects. I can't imagine anyone not going this route since it is so simple. Also, AVCHD sometimes gives weird results, you have to combine the files with a filejoiner to be assured of zero problems.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

http://journal.hellomikee.com/panasonic-gx85-review/

Scot

Have a few questions for owners of this camera.

I have read that unlike the G7 the GX85 has clean HDMI out with audio? conflicting reports on quality 4.2.2 vs 4.2.0 and 8 vs 10 bit can any one confirm?

I have also read it can use a DC coupler and uses the one for GF3 but lacks the notch so you can't close the battery compartment door. Not a deal killer about the notch but panasonic what the heck :(

The DC coupler will allow me to make up for the small battery. The HDMI out has it's obvious advantages and also can be used with the Black Magic video assist 4k and record audio thru mini xlr inputs. Any other recorders do audio?

If these are true I am totally sold the positives far outweigh the negatives for me.

DrDave

@Scot I have done several shoots using the DC fake battery & AC adapter with no issues so far. Unlike some cameras, the cord needs to be threaded through the bottom of the battery/card door. There's a hole just big enough to thread the adapter, then you attach the cord to the power supply (the hole isn't big enough for the power supply, so you just need to fit the battery, then attach the PS). The reason I dislike this is because I like to solder the battery to the power supply. I've seen them come apart in the field. You can just wrap it with gaffer tape and it will hold. The second reason I don't like this is that it is a pain to get it on a tripod with a big, flat base. Again, the work around is to use a tripod that is narrow enough for the cord, or just shave off a corner. You can also drill a hole through the base if you want a big base. I have several tripods that work, but the aren't the big monster tripods. Anyway, there's several workarounds. The older system, where the cord threads through the side, allowed any tripod, but then you couldn't, for example, swap the battery for the fake battery easily. A minor issue, IMHO. The camera is kind of a no brainer, although I slightly prefer the G7 for the grip and the controls. I can't see a difference in the IQ, and the IS is cool on the GX85. Photos are better on the 85. Like I said, it's a no brainer for the price and the kit lens is surprisingly good.

Scot

@DrDave Thanks just what I needed to know. I am a happy owner of a G7 but want IBIS so badly for the way I like to shoot. So is the coupler the one for the GF3 I have the one for the G7 from when I had a GH2? I think I can work around the ergonomics it will probably need a cage anyways. Given it's weighty feel I'm sure dropping it would be very bad for it. Kind of why I like the light plastic bodies thru the years I've reluctantly found they tend to bounce more break less than metal : )

bealbuoy

@Scot i use the coupler for my LX100. The GX80 uses the same battery as the LX100,the BLG10. The GF3 coupler will only work if it takes the BLG10 battery, I believe the GF3 takes the BLG9, so It would not work.

Tron

I'm not sure if this is of interest to anybody else but while researching a compact audio solution for this camera I stumbled across the Tascam DR-10SG. http://tascam.com/product/dr-10sg/overview/

Aside from being $100 less expensive than the Sennheiser recorder mic this unit also features a programmable recording slate for audio sync. It can be set to emit an audible tone for cameras with just an on-board mic or it can be sent over the line out jack. For only $200 it seems like a pretty good deal, IMO.

Anyone on here already using this mic?

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@Tron

http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/14992/tascam-dr-10sg/p1

Tron

Oh, very nice... thanks VK!

MikeLinn

DrDave

@MikeLinn I'm seeing some weird blockiness in that last vid....is it just me?

Scot

I just received my GX85 open box saved little over $100 at BestBuy. As of this moment they still show availability. I'll be more detailed later but I have to mention one thing. I realize the viewfinder is not as good as the G7 but I personally find the G7 viewfinder painful as it pushes on the edge of my eye socket and it is so hard. In comparison the GX85 being smaller fits closer to the eye without discomfort I like it better go figure. My only pet peeve at the moment is when you turn stabilization off the crop remains. I would prefer to get my full view when stabilization is off. Sometimes I just need all the horizontal field of view I can get I hope Panasonic considers changing that.

markr041

@ DrDave First, "MikeLinn" just dumps videos all over this web site, without any comment about them. He shoots no videos, whoever he is. I now ignore them, since it is never clear what they are supposed to show and clearly have not been screened for usefulness or quality. Nor can (or does) Mr. Linn answer any questions about them. But I digress.

Second, I do not understand why anyone would use YouTube to make video comparisons. Not to mention that side-by-side views and added titles obviously further compress (degrade) video quality.

I posted a low light comparison of the GH4 and GX85 earlier, at ISO 6400 using the exact same lens and aperture. The video underwent no compression at all, by me. And you can download the original video. Then any compression or other artifacts are directly from the camera, not from YouTube or by the video preparer. So no confusion about what the camera actually produces.

GH4 first.

And I answer questions...

Vesku

@markr041

I agree the comment about MikeLinn. Videos he sends are OK but why no comments.

In your example the GH4 video looks brighter. Blacks are much lighter in GH4 video. Did you use the same scene lightning and the same exposure values? Is the GH4 profile so much "flatter" than GX85? It may explain the difference in noise if the GX85 makes image darker. It may even use lower iso than the camera is telling. The NR seems to bee more aggressive in GX85 too.

I have compared my GH4 and a GX7 video brightness at same settings. The GX7 has brighter image at same iso than GH4. DXOmark also tells that GH4 uses actually lower iso than the camera shows. Like real iso 300 when the camera shows 400.

woolhats

@markr041..I dont get it. Why do jump on Mike Linn? He is only the messenger..He gives us interesting movies..at least as interesting movies as your static clips from museums and flowers.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Mike make big work, sometimes it is not easy to notice. But finding all this test videos and examples for various topics almost every day is not very easy if you think.

And Mark make lot of various very useful demo videos and also help a lot of people here. I am sure not many know who he is in his main not camera-online life. :-)

markr041

@Vesku Yes, exactly the same lighting (controlled by LED array) and shutter, aperture, ISO (same lens). You could be right about other differences in the defaults of the two cameras. Anyway, what you see is what you get. I do not, however, see a difference in NR aggressiveness, as the resolution is at least as high from the GX85 (no obvious smearing, but clearly less noise).

On ML: It is a lot of work to catch relevant videos all around the internet. But with no comments, one cannot know whether the video is worth watching or not - what it is about. Not worth the effort to have to watch the video to find out. And, often no attribution is given for who authored the video, so viewers are misled (I have seen this many times here) as to who the author is. And since the author did not post it, one cannot have a dialogue with him or her. I think it is a questionable practice. I guess it is better than not having the videos (they are relevant), but more info is needed at a minimum.

@woolhats I am sorry you did not understand my criticism (see right above) - it is not about the videos "from" Linn (or whether they are "interesting"), but about the practice of dumping videos, with no information, authored by others. I did criticize the use of YouTube videos in general to compare video quality. You did say "I don't get it." You are correct, you don't. And, "static clips... from flowers" - nice phrase. I will be sure to look for your interesting dynamic "movies" at my neighborhood octaplex. I thought this forum was about camera learning, not a repository for art films, or for sneering.

Vesku

@markr041

If the GH4 has darker image at the same settings than GX7 and GX85 even darker than GH4 we must think the GX85 fools with iso value. Noise looks better because the camera uses actually lower sensor magnification at same showed iso.

DXOmark tells the GH4 has real iso116 and GX85 iso136 when the camera shows iso200. I dont know if those numbers are relevant for video. GH4 should be darker according to those numbers.

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