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GH4 Firmware 2.3, V-log for $99, Epic Panasonic marketing fail
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  • @shian Will your LUTs be available for download or purchase?

  • It's not the wrong interpretation if it gives you the look you want.

  • banding is what you were going for??

  • Neuman Films has just released V-LOG LUTs - 5 styles - BASIC, MONO, PUNCHY, VINTAGE & MODERN - 30 LUTs total. I replaced my earlier video post of sunset/sky tests with a trimmed version, 3 of these LUTs applied - several of the "BASIC" on the sunset/seascapes and on the under exposed house at twilight I used "WHITE PUNCH" from "PUNCHY" category, page 35. I have not had the chance yet to try these LUTs on better suited V-LOG material but will post when can do. At least they are categorized for easier navigation - please take the hint Mr. Miller, with all due respect! And yes looking forward to Shian's LUTs however they become available.

  • I've been testing Vlog-l outside for the last couple of days, so I thought I would try it out inside for a change. I was also testing to see how badly any magenta/blue macroblocking, thats been reported, would show up on the walls. I found some throughout this video in most clips, some clips more than others.

    Shot under Fluorescent Kitchen light

    with Voigtlander 25mm f0.95 @f1.4 on GH4


    Sharpness: 0 NR: -5

  • I also would like to know how to get the footage to look 'real', not overcooked, because that's the way I frequently use it. I guess with V-Log that's going to have a cost in post. Natural photo style get me there with a few clicks (s-curve, saturation), but that extra DR will keep me orbiting V-Log, I guess...

    That said, I like shian's color approach and I can easily recognize someone's skills (even if I don't know a thing about the art...).

  • What shian says is correct both from a theoretical and real world perspective.

    Vlog is vlog. It does what it was designed to do. It has its lacks in 8bit. You don't have to use it for everything.

  • All 5 are currently available free to all CG Pro users. But, I'll give you this caveat: these LUTs are not a cure-all. They will definitely give you better results than most other options, but V-log has it's limitations and applications - Sunsets and wide DR scenes with sweeping gradients in 8bit are not it.

    Use it for faces or where falloff is needed or wanted. You can't have it all, $100 is an upgrade, not a revolution.

    I think if you're shooting dark sci-fi or horror scenes it'll be perfect 8:1, 16:1, 32: and even 64:1 type scenes with density and grit are very possible. [think Blade Runner and the Daredevil series]

    Until I get my hands on a 10bit recorder to play with, I won't know if there are ways to get better results down that avenue. In the meanwhile I'll keep exploring the internal codec and creating options to make it the best it can be.

  • banding is what you were going for??

    I don't shoot V-Log L in 8 bits. I like sweeping sunsets, and the freedom to interpret footage so it looks true to life.

  • I think that when you shoot interior scenes with light walls and use some atmosphere, any banding will go away...though I don't have my Panasonic Key codes yet, I think this is a tool for a proper set, set design, using diffusion and maybe shooting in a different profile..(I really like Natural) for some situations, but looking at Shian's sample in 8bit, this is a powerful tool, as long as people can manage their expectations...

  • V-Log not for me right now...

    Compared to my beloved "Natural" with -5 in both contrast and color saturation and S/H @ +2/-2, V-Log (sharpness -2, noise -5) requires a knowledge I don't have. Here's a succession of 3 pictures where I tried to match both. You can see a separation between L/R images in three different points.

    It's clear that magenta/cyan patches are not exclusive in smooth areas: the cat fur is green in V-Log !!! (3th image).

    Edit: sorry, more details:

    • V-Log converted with "VLog_to_V709_forV35_ver100.cube" in Red Giant's LUT Buddy, levels adjusted

    • Natural, small S-Curve, levels adjusted

    1920 x 1080 - 1M
    1920 x 1080 - 1M
    1920 x 1080 - 1M
  • beware of hysteresis. do a global reset and reinstall firmware. It's not a cure-all, but users have been reporting that it is an improvement.

  • Just ordered a Ninja Star to use with V Log. I know it's not 4K but hoping it'll get cleaner 1080.

  • VLog looks good to me. Although it isn't perfect I am happy with the way it handles skin tones. I normally use the Natural profile with 0 -3 -5 -2 0 to match Smooth on the GH2 and Neutral on my Nikons cameras. I decided to try and mimic the VLog look with Natural and stretch the images back out to see how the Natural profile handles all the pushing and pulling. To me Natural can hang with VLog pretty well even though VLog has more dynamic range on the shadow side of things.

    I uploaded 2 video files to my drop box link. One of the files is a 4K ProRes file that you can download and play with, the other file is a H.264 file that you can download to see the difference with the grade. The two files were properly exposed off of a Sekonic light meter. Everything was exposed at ISO 400, F/5.6 SS-60 and properly white balanced.

    I also performed some other tests using VLog and noticed that if you overexpose by 1-1 2/3 of a stop it helps with the noise with out screwing up the ( Skin Tones ). I always expose the GH4 keeping the midtones between 43-50 IRE, Keeping the IRE between 43-50 seems to help a lot with the other picture profiles for skin tones particulary with the Cine D profile. Finally with VLog I can expose to the right with out worrying about screwing up the skin tones. Hallelujah ;-)

    1920 x 1080 - 294K
    1920 x 1080 - 294K
    1920 x 1080 - 299K
  • I followed the advice to do a full camera reset and now V-log is looking MUCH better. The magenta/cyan blocking is still there but vastly reduced. I also grade in DaVinci Resolve and DO NOT USE LUT's! I use the custom curves to bring the image from log to a rec709 colour space. The Varicam35 V-log LUT is awful. The Alexa C-log LUT is best but no lut is even better. V-log is now useable. I still prefer Natural setting for most shots, but having V-log will be nice.

  • Shot out of my window yesterday. I think the images speak for themselves...

    Iso 400, GH4 8bit internal, Grading in Speedgrade, UHD 30p in a 1080p24 timeline

  • Without getting into a very long explanation, using straight curves to move the raw V-log to a more familiar space is not the worst way to go, BUT the amount of time it would take you to draw out the individual custom curves in such a way to accurate place the luma values where they ought to be WITHOUT splitting them from the chroma values (which will happen, just watch your scopes, is counter productive. THIS is where the chroma smear starts to "jump out", as your image's integrity begins to unravel. We used to see this same thing happen with film scans back in the day. This is Why LUTs were invented.

    The above is what has always caused 8bit video to 'break apart" and is the foundation of everything I employ in my methods so that the footage doesn't disintegrate.

  • Wow wow just wow, what Uwe Lansing shot above is just mind-blowingly horrendous. I hope they manage to fix it for GH5.

  • @shian @caveport

    Thanks you both for your advise. I'll reset my camera (perhaps V-Log is not the only one to improve) and (probably) keep using Natural...

    If we look at my picture about, it's clear that Natural has the same magenta/cyan shift (in the same spots!! Look at the sofa) but the internal processing (lowering DR??) hides it.

    Keep in mind I use the same exposure for both Natural an V-Log - this could well not be the best approach.

    Natural gives me:

    • 200 ISO (lower noise floor)
    • direct histogram reading (albeit, I'm not sure I know how to properly expose in V-Log)
    • more direct correction in post (a simple S-Curve serves me well).

    What I like about V-Log:

    • a chance to have more DR (I can't see it but more experienced people, with correct technical knowledge, can measure it)
    • I like the colors better than Natural... (not sure yet, but maybe if I reduce lightness in Natural, maybe I can get similar results)
  • Not shure if my comment adds value here as I do not have a GH4 with VLOG, but I have noticed a very similar behaviour to Uwe Lansings video showing the banding when I tried to push the BMPCC 4:2:2 10bit ProRes files around in a Adobe Premiere Pro timeline - ugly banding, etc... I think that Adobe's PPro's bitdepth is not sufficient for the amount of contrast a LUT (or pushing the image) adds to the footage.

    In DaVinci Resolve for instance all that banding is gone, and I can push the image around as heavy as I want it without destroying it (hence I am now full on Resolve - I use PPro only for the edit and some warp stabilization).

    Hence, don't judge the image quality coming from a PPro timeline!

  • @Azo

    Can you see the darker areas around the face (also in shoulders) going yellow/green in V-Log?

  • @GMC Only in timeline? The final output is correct? That could be interesting... (PPro could be using faster, read lower quality, processing to agile things a bit...). I'll try a render with Maximum Quality (I usually don't use this...).

    BTW, using Magic Bullet Looks with LUT filter to apply "VLog_to_V709_forV35_ver100.cube" the results are awful - severe color shifts.

  • @caveport " The Alexa C-log LUT is best but no lut is even better."

    I use Final Cut Pro X to edit and grade... Wish I knew how to color grade with Resolve though.... But since you mentioned the Alexa C-log LUT I figured I would load up Premiere and try that LUT on one of the clips. WOW the Alexa LUT worked perfectly! It looks great to my eyes just the look I like, adjusted exposure just a tad and the clip came out perfect for my taste.

    Thank you for the suggestion on the Alexa C-log LUT works great and the colors look way better then what I did with my grade ;-)