Closed due going off the rails.

@all Reason for political topics on PV is EDUCATION, period.

but the reason most people with open minds give this country a pass has to do with our intentions.

Well, if by "most people" you mean most Americans, you're right. Americans are always persuaded that their motivations, unlike other peoples', are virtuous. So when we killed a few million South-East Asian civilians in the 60s and early 70s, it was from good intentions and misguided virtue.

As you might imagine, this argument isn't very persuasive among the victims. And it can't withstand actual scrutiny. Look at what the U.S. has actually done in its foreign policy in the post WWII period, and there's no way to make a case that the intentions were good. It could be the motivations of the ordinary Americans who, through ignorance or the pathology of patriotism, support these invasion, interventions, proxy wars and military coups were good, but that says nothing about policy makers or actual policy.

In this we're hardly unique, however. All empires behave in this way. Chomsky himself has pointed out that foreign media love him when he bashes the U.S., but he never gets invited back on the show if he points out the atrocities of the host country.

And the reason we get a "pass" -- to the extent anyone could do anything about a rogue empire, even if they wanted to (short of terrorism!) -- is that until recently at least, our domestic culture is or at least was freer and more open than many other industrial democracies, and is admired even when our foreign policy is deemed to be criminal. But admiration for our domestic culture is also becoming less common, with the constant diminution of civil liberties by the national security state and the wholesale purchase of all 3 branches of government by the .01%.

@kurth, you need not go further than your own links. They don't even say what you think they say.

The Northwoods plan is quite shocking indeed. It certainly adds another group of people who would like to have seen Kennedy removed. I have no illusions about what the U.S. government (and various shadow governments) have done and will do in the future. There are some pretty sleazy, wicked characters behind the scenes. Life means nothing to them. You need look no further than Dick Cheney.

caveport, It's just when leaders throw around the word "Terrorism" and misapply it haphazardly any place they want, these reflexes are what green light Iraq invasions and other such misadventures. The word "communism" used to be the same, most americans didn't even know what it meant but if they heard it, they'd be ready to support an invasion or missile strike.

The USA has a long history of using terror and false terror. It was recently proven the uss maine exploded from the inside out. And the gulf of tonkin incident is proven as well. Operation Phoenix in vietnam assassinated 25,000 mostly civilians. Like Gladio in europe, Operation Northwoods was planning attacks on US soil. Iran/Contra not only used terrorism in central america but funded it by illegally smuggling drugs into the USA to sell to it's own citizens. And this is only about 1/1000th of the terror acts committed by the Land of the Free. I'd define a terror act as a drone striking a funeral , killing 40 some-odd people , many women and children , then when rescue workers arrive , strike them with another drone. This is proven fact.

Americanism is a cult and like any cult, it's based on myth and ignorance.

I have little motivation to debate any more of Chomsky's (or Kurth's) points on terrorism.

Some highlights of Chomps.

@jrd

Then let me be more clear: yes, I've actually read quite a bit of his writing over many years - which is how my opinion was formed.

One may choose to argue religion with an atheist, but usually both are wasting their time. That doesn't mean both are not intimately familiar with the beliefs of the other.

At the risk of just being attacked (not by you @Matt_gh2 , I genuinely accept your comment as non-aggressive)...

Let me put it this way, just to generalize: I've been aware of Chomsky's base ideals, and opinions for years upon years. I was first made aware of his writings by a friend that I used to do tradeshows with. My friend was/is truly a dyed-in-the-wool, full blown leftist who would love to attend every meeting of the G8 and carry a puppet. My political complete opposite. However, we were very good friends and had very long, fruitful discussions on where we differed. To the rest of the world, my friend Carey is an idiot socialist, and I am a crazy gun nut capitalist. We were a great pair to invite to dinner, though... the Chomsky Acolyte, and his friend the Ayn Rand Disciple. ;) So there's a small bit of background.

So having said that, here's my basic opinion on Chomsky: I don't bother debating anything the man writes, as I believe he begins from the baseline of "America/Capitalism/Whatever Else is completely evil. I will now employ my pseudo-degrees in linguistics and amaze you with sentences that sound true, but are in fact completely pulled out of context are framed in a way to make my argument irrefutable to those that haven't the time nor inclination to look at actual facts." Chomsky would argue the sun was green, if he thought it would prove a point on America's intended destruction of the world.

Chomsky is an intellectual bully; in the same way that the Kim family has beaten their chests and talked of their Divine Right of Whatever; it's like listening to a very ignorant bigot give a well-worded speech on why blacks/jews/homosexuals should be eradicated. The excellent prose and the academic standing is a prop, hiding an delusional, irrational agenda. Of course, many people confuse the 2 and think he's an outstanding addition to policy debate.

I will no more debate the words of Chomsky on foreign policy and economics, than I would debate Louis Farrakhan on matters of race nor Fred Phelps on religious tolerance. Is everything the man has ever said false? No, but even a blind squirrel will find a nut once in awhile.

@thorn Curious to know what Chomsky statements/ideas you consider false. (No disrespect intended - I'm actually interested to hear your perspective.). Thanks.

@kurth

May be this will be better beginning : "It all began with dinosaurs forming terrorist state..."

Kurth, I don't watch 2.5 hour videos unless there's a paycheck at the end. I can email you my paypal.