GH4 4K Panasonic video camera, official topic

Ian_T

@jrd personally I think it's one thing to disregard those who make a little to be more than it really is...but to say the GH-4 does not make great images is beyond a stretch. Of course it does. It might not look as good as...this or that camera...(make your own choice) but nobody here (coming from a GH-2 / GH-3 or any of the lower end cameras we've been using for the last few years) should make a claim like that. If you qualified that statement with "compared to...." then it would help make your point. I'm not putting you down but it seems like maybe you're just annoyed by the overly hyped behavior of those who can really appreciate a camera like this. It's like watching a kid eating the candy at the candy store... we all know how that is. Wasn't it you who was comparing...or shooting your GH-2 with a Red not too long ago. The image from this camera potentially looks better than any of the GH-2 hacks. I say "potentially" because we've yet to see something with substance shot with this camera. Just sayin....

jimagine

I like people who are passionate about their art and tools. Having produced with all levels of cameras for a long time - he's really not exaggerating. This camera really does deliver, on many levels, a sort of the ideal, small film making tool - with the things that people really have been waiting for in a DSLR form factor. It hits it on all levels from a functionality standpoint, while keeping the ease of on board SD recording. Unlike mini-DV era, this camera really could compete, IQ wise, at a cinema level.

It looks like a great, small camera system. I feel the same way about the BM cameras as far as IQ and DR, and they have very limited interfaces. Looking forward to playing with the GH4

jamesgh2

@jrd

Good points, however my mind wasn't made up at first until I handled the footage, that made it. BTW I make my living selling B-Roll footage to all major TV stations and Hollywood studios, have used several pro cameras that cost more than cars. The GH4 footage is better than most of them and resolution wise it is right up there with the RED. Add a 4k recorder for 10 bit and you have a very impressive cinema ready device.

BTW no holy grail exists, the a7s has better low light same goes for the Alexa, and the RED has better IQ and features at the end of the day but all have drawbacks in price or features still.

But for $1700 you cant really see this as anything but a gem!

Im sorry for being too excited in my previous post, I sounded like describing a new Ferrari with Kate Upton on the passenger seat. ;)

jrd

@adamT

Was the self parody intentional?

I think we can assume that anyone who engages in discussion has made up his mind about something or other. The question is whether there's there's any basis in reality for the assertions being made.

My views were clearly stated: based on footage posted so far, the GH4 doesn't produce great images, that it absolutely doesn't surpass any number of cameras in the <$15K range, and given the nature of low-budget filmmaking, it wouldn't matter if it did produce superlative images, to the extent anyone believes the GH4 or any other camera will be decisive in his/her career.

Feel free to refute any of the above.

mpgxsvcd

@Vitaliy_Kiselev

Looks like ISO 12,800 is an electrical gain for the GH4 and ISO 100 might be real or close to real as well. ISO 25,600 certainly is not real for the GH4. Otherwise dynamic range and color according to DXO Mark are almost identical to the GH3.

I can only assume that the GH4 specs are now finalized or they wouldn't have allowed DXO mark to publish results, right?

rNeil

And something else that pops up ... from talking directly with the Panny folk at NAB yesterday ... there is no difference whatever in the output from the in-cam mini-HDMI port and the "full-size" HDMI of the YAGH unit. Other than (naturally) one's "mini" and one's "full-size". They just shook their heads over concerns that the YAGH is needed to output the full 4k signal ... noting there are NO image processing capabilities in the YAGH. It has the audio in's/level-controls and the "mechanical" conversion of the HDMI out into the four-out SDI plugs. That's it.

The full-size HDMI in the YAGH is just hardwired into the output of the mini-HDMI of the camera.

And, btw ... they were openly speculating how long it would be before indie camera accessory companies created other things like the YAGH ... as in, how many months till someone else has say a battery-powered unit similar to the YAGH but without SDI ports (to fit the battery in) ... all sorts of things.

AdamT

@jrd Yep, no arguing with someone who's mind is made up. Was the self parody intentional?

jrd

This evangelical language, complete with Holy Grail invocations, has been heard many times before. In the mini-DV era, many would-be filmmakers routinely asserted that there were "no more excuses", and that the format surpassed 16mm. Sounds absurd now, but many believed it, in particular those who had done little or no filmmaking.

For ultra-low budget dramatic filmmaking, production value(much less resolution) has never been a deciding factor, so in that sense there's never been an "excuse", if all a feature film requires is a camera. You could have made your no-budget masterpiece any time in the last 20 years. No need to wait for your GH4 to ship.

For non-dramatic filmmaking, it's hard to understand why anyone would need 4K at this time -- even assuming the GH4 delivers anything like 4000 lines, which is highly improbable -- but there's no arguing with somebody whose mind is made up.

As for some of the wilder claims above, it might help to actually review the footage available from cameras <$15K before making such statements.

jamesgh2

That DXO score doesn't surprise me. The Still quality is better than the 7D I own at up to ISO 800 and very close to 3200. Its an outstanding sensor and processing. It is the best sensor ever in a m43 camera according to DXO. The footage coming out of it has a wow factor that I can only remember after seeing the best hacks in the GH2 in good light. However this footage is even better than the best hacks and in 4k.

The quality this camera "from the footage I have seen-tweaked" achieves is better than 99% of the cameras we have ever had under 15k or maybe more $ before today. Panasonic has delivered an un-crippled masterpiece of hardware. There is really no real limitation for you to go create something cinematic and beautiful.

If you don't perform with this camera the only feature or spec that is lacking is your talent. Go read some books or take some classes, another camera won't fix that.

And if you still don't like the 4:2:0 then go get a Shogun recorder and get your 4:2:2 10 bit.

The only things I can think of a GH5 improving is make the sensor a perfect 4k or 8.84 MP for even better DR and low light and up the frame rates in 4k and 1080p as fast as possible for good slow-mo without line skipping.

Counting the days, hours, minutes for my GH4 to ship.

jonpais

@mjfeliciano comment belongs in Panasonic skintones look like Mattel action figures flame topic

Aria

It seems to me that the issues so far are hard to declare as real issues this early. No other GH has had this level of flexibility in terms of shaping the image so I don't think we'll be stuck with "greenish" casts or any such other issues once users understand how to make the proper adjustments.

Everything is relative. So we have a bit more DR and still people will push the camera to it's limits and if that leads to some issues with highlights then people don't keep it in perspective relative to what we couldn't do before. We get more of everything but that never fully satisfies users. There's always more, more, more... 11 stops, 12, 14, 16... 8Bits, 10Bits, 16Bits... There's no end to it unless we change our attitudes a bit and get a bit more reasonable in our expectations.

It's like people haven't stopped to accept the amazing thing that we have a 4K camera for under $2,000.00!!! 10Bit HDMI is also nothing to sneeze at. It goes on and on. This is pretty close to the very Holy Grail many have been asking for the last 5 years.

mjfeliciano

@fancydancer regarding the driftwood GH4 test video. I like the images produced by this camera, even better than my hacked GH2 with Moon T7, but something that concerns me is the "greenish" cast and "plastic" look on dark skin complexions. Same problem as the Sony F5/F55. You can see what I'm talking about on the black lady at 1:54. My other concern is the highlight fall off; for example the "hot" area on the left side of the guy's face at 0:27. Still, I think this is the perfect camera for the kind of work I do. At least until a better camera comes out.

johnnymossville

I've been playing with the 444 script all day and the difference is subtle. It appears that the script does improve the image slightly in the darker areas of the image, not sure why. There is a bit more to work with and you can push it harder, but I suspect the time it takes may not be with it. Straight out of the can it pretty much rocks.

ten

@mpgxsvcd

yea ill do that, thanks for your learned input.

ten

jrd

@yak

Have you actually tried grading it? Take the observation for what it's worth, but the 1080p material exhibits much the same limitations as the 4K originals. The more pertinent question now may be the quality of the HDMI out.

yak

@driftwood Wow, that's some grading flexibility!

konjow

@Vitaliy "We'll also have GH4 on deals soon. :-)" with free grip and battery for early orders? ;-)

kevin_kirchman

Each frame is 18MB? Holy shiiiiiiiiiii-

driftwood

10 bit 444 2K from C4K (4096x2160) downloadable here (you can compare it with the earlier vimeo skin tone test download from last week)

mrbill

@OBgene - my understanding is that wherever you buy the camera, as soon as you switch to a pal frequency, you're limited to the 30minutes again

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Vitaliy_Kiselev

http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GH4-sensor-review-Heavyweight-contender

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@OBgene

We'll also have GH4 on deals soon. :-)

aaronchicago

I'm sold. After downloading Driftwoods street video and grading with FilmConvert, the GH4 has the look and latitude that I want. I WANT IT NOW!

mpgxsvcd

@ten

I think out of all the lumix cams with the most chance of being hacked the GH4 is very near the top and removal of the 30 min limit will be one of the first things to go! ;-)

So you are volunteering to create this hack. That is very kind of you to take that task off of VK's plate. We will be kind back and give you at least one week after the camera is released to start asking when the hack will be done.

If you think the GH4 has to have a hack to be usable then you should probably look at other cameras because I doubt a hack is going to happen in the near future since it hasn't happened for the GH3 yet.

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