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Sound editing and mixing with headphones (sound cards, amps etc.)
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  • Vitaliy, you would use multiple speaker configurations to test a mix to make sure it translates to different listening environments. A mix that sounds good on expensive 3 way towers might not sound good on computer satellites with a sub woofer. Most of the engineers I have worked with had at least 2 sets of speakers to test a mix and of course a quick run out to listen to the car stereo was common as well.

    Headphones are excellent to focus on one aspect of the sound but they don't provide a good platform for developing space and positioning a sound. You can EQ, pan, add verb etc to move a sound around in a mix. This is why near field monitors that are flat in a treated room are important. You want an accurate rendering of the material so that the changes you make are neutral and not colored by your environment.

  • Ideally you would have something like a Mackie Big Knob to switch between your near fields, some consumer grade speakers and a pair of computer speakers to ensure that your mix is transportable.

    I want to make sense why you need multiple speakers instead of set of EQ if you so want to.

    You would use headphones as part of this process but mostly headphones are used to listen for errors in the recording process (clicks, pops, buzz, etc)

    Can you tell me logic under this?

  • Depends on how you can translate your skills - mixed several times multi million viewer prime time progs last minute on cans with no tech or artistic worries. TV in the UK is currently damage limitation - time wise nowadays anyhoo - with charges constantly asked for due to "fails" with "QC" departments springing up (i.e. 19 year old Ravensbourne grads in the QC basement) charging for re-submissions - you get the gist.

  • FrankLantern is correct that you cannot mix with headphones. You don't need to cover the room with vinyl unless you really want to :)

  • I know you said you wanted to mix with only headphones and perhaps you are aware of this but having a treated room with proper monitors is the most efficient way to produce consistent mixes. Ideally you would have something like a Mackie Big Knob to switch between your near fields, some consumer grade speakers and a pair of computer speakers to ensure that your mix is transportable. You would use headphones as part of this process but mostly headphones are used to listen for errors in the recording process (clicks, pops, buzz, etc)

    I recently treated a room by using mass weighted vinyl. It cost around $500 to cover a 14 x 15 room. This stuff is heavy so you have to rig a way to hang it from the walls. I used 1x2's screwed into the wall's 2x4's. It is not sound proof, getting something sound proof is incredibly difficult, but it does provide a neutral environment. You can add bass traps etc but having a 'dead' room is the most important.

    I use beyerdynamic headphones. They are not the best but they are cost effective.

  • Tascam is pro brand of Teac. And for many years they make pro equipment. Their USB interfaces are good. Just always check feedback from users about drivers (I mean here all manufacturers), as software is complex and cam be not very reliable.

    Focusrite (this one sounds like some b-grade photo accessory brand).

    Do not know that you mean. As they make very good interfaces.

  • @spacewig: Well it's a mix of those things really, with narrative and docu prevailing.

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev: nice one, I had a Behringer mixer for my garage band few years ago, had no complaints.

    About the Tascam brand, how reliable are they? I do have some mild experience with musical instruments/equipment and I never came across the brands that are seemingly popular in this category (on B&H for example) like Digidesign or Focusrite (this one sounds like some b-grade photo accessory brand).

    On other hand, every musician I knew had at least something in his rack from Tascam or Roland.

  • Also good option is new Behringer U-PHORIA UMC404

    image

    • 4×4 USB2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface for recording microphones and instruments
    • Audiophile 24-Bit/96 kHz resolution for professional audio quality
    • Compatible with popular recording software including Avid Pro Tools, Ableton Live, Steinberg Cubase*, etc.
    • Streams 4 inputs / 4 outputs plus 1x MIDI I/O with ultra-low latency to your computer, supporting Mac* OS X* and Windows XP* or higher
    • 4 state-of-the-art, MIDAS designed Mic Preamplifiers with +48 V phantom power
    • Analog Inserts for use of external effects such as compressors, etc.

    All for $150


    As for cheapest acceptable stuff around $100

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  • @Riker Can you elaborate a little on the type of audio you will be working with/on? Is it for narrative, documentary, commercial work?

  • Don't know if anyone here tried the Focusrite's VRM Box: http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/vrm-box

    It is a headphone USB interface that emulates a range of ambients / speakers for monitoring. When it was released, I saw some good reviews about it, but don't know how it evolved.

    About headphones, I've bought a cheap Senal SMH-1000 after some good reviews. I've compared it at B&H against the Sony's VDR-V6 and it sounded much better - but of course it is not a top dog headphone.

  • I', sure that Octacapture is top notch device in its class but the pricetag of $500 is a no no for me at the moment :)

    First, at the link it is $399, not $500.

    So those under $150 devices are absolutely everything I'm looking at.

    I agree here. But. Choose them carefully. Today firms save every dollar, most cheap cards have savings were it is possible (mostly preamps, DACs and drivers). I suggest to get best card you can, most probably now discounted model.

    For voiceover you can even use simple XLR to USB converted with phantom power. not bad ones exist.

  • @DrDave I', sure that Octacapture is top notch device in its class but the pricetag of $500 is a no no for me at the moment :)

    As you've said, it would be smart to get something I could use for quick voiceover work, but that's about it at this point where I'm at. As I've said, I need this mainly to have a decent sound "card" for video post production, one XLR input is fine but any additional features seem unnecessary to me now.

    So those under $150 devices are absolutely everything I'm looking at.

  • He's not looking for earphones to mix music but for audio post-production as it relates to video.

    Were you found it in first post? He asked about sound card and headphones suitable for task.

  • He's not looking for earphones to mix music but for audio post-production as it relates to video. So discussions about mixing in earphones is pointless.

  • sorry but I don't know of any good engineer that would mix on headphones, the right way to do it is on monitors, and check the mix on headphones, but not the reverse.

    Ones I talked can be not so pro and not so rich, you know :-) I agree that it is very common opinion to work only /mostly with monitors.

    Problem is that such opinion has very little logic. I even heard it from the guy using just horrible unequalized Yamaha monitors.

    Only fully logical explanation (aside from imaging) is that it requires skill to keep headphones at reasonable level (due to psychoacoustics you need more Db for same perceived loudness and it can be not good for ears).

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev "Good to understand that most sound engineers I met are either headphone addicts (most work on headphones with check on monitors), or in reverse."

    sorry but I don't know of any good engineer that would mix on headphones, the right way to do it is on monitors, and check the mix on headphones, but not the reverse.

  • Exactly. If you need to you can use something simple for a quick voice-over.

  • If you get something like that, make sure it works as "stand alone", so you can use it on location with no computer attached. The RMEs are slightly better but there is huge competition in the midrange.

    Octa-capture can be used standalone. Tascam US-800 also can be as I remember (never used one as such, but I have it). US-800 is good interface and can be found very cheap, just drivers are horrible (and company do not care to fix them, their simpler US models have better drivers).

    In practice you need something simple usually if all you do is recording your voice, even simple USB MicPre can do. Plus headphone amp.

  • @Riker The Chinese designs are cutting edge. I don't see anything out there better for under a grand. For home use, you only need 4 XLR if you are recording in a home studio. It's a good idea to have voice over capability for quick and dirty punch ins but for that stereo is plenty. Many of these min dacs have an analog input you can just plug a preamp into. I only use my computer for editing, so I just need a good monitor, but everyone has a different setup. I have definitely heard some interfaces other than RME than sound decent, and there isn't nearly as much difference between brands as there used to be. But within brands there is a quite a bit of variety. I have tried some Focusrite stuff that was pretty darn good, and some that wasn't as good. Depends on what you want it for.

    That Octacapture that Vitaliy linked to looks interesting. You can get a Mackie 8 channel with dual HP monitors for about $300 with Onyx pres as well. If you get something like that, make sure it works as "stand alone", so you can use it on location with no computer attached. The RMEs are slightly better but there is huge competition in the midrange.

    Mostly these days I just record to my DR 680 and take the card out and load it on the computer, and that is that. All the really expensive stuff just sits on the shelf.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev looks "pro" :) but unfortunately at the moment I haven't got the slightest clue what would any of those jacks and inputs do for me.

    Are there any examples where would I need 4x XLR on my video editing rig? I can't think of a situation...

  • @DrDave are low price products like this worthy of buying simply because of their brand - this Roland Duo-Capture mk2 goes for $80, haven't seen anything cheaper than this really http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UA11MK2/

  • Top interfaces are from MOTU, Focusrite and Roland.

    I like http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Roland-UA1010-Octa-Capture-10X10-USB-Audio-Interface-/291050285013?pt=US_Computer_Recording_Interfaces&hash=item43c3f2e7d5

    It is sold as "used" (prevention of manufacturer measures), and with good discount (but not cheap and can be of no use if you just need to monitor and record from one mike).

  • Cans are not linear, and for a number of reasons which have been detailed at great length elsewhere, cans are useless for mixing. The best you can do is to create a mix that sounds good on your cans, and someone else's cans, but sounds horrible on a lot of other systems. You have to have a pair of speakers to do a mixdown, there is no way around it.

    I do not agree here fully. You can mix in cans, if they are equalized or you know their character. Imaging is different, but it is not huge problem in most cases.

    Near field monitors at reasonable price always will be less detailed, will have inferior bass and lots of reflections (even for near field, as I said).

    Good to understand that most sound engineers I met are either headphone addicts (most work on headphones with check on monitors), or in reverse.

  • I would get a Chinese design USB interface in the 50-100 dollar range that does ASIO instead of a soundcard. I use Weiliang design, but there are several that are good. Look over the link that Vitaliy posted. You can move it freely between computers and there are many that sound nearly as good as my high end ones. They sound as good or better than "brand name" midrange junk gear.

    For headphones the ATH-M50 is OK for closed design, and the Sennheisers are good for open design. Cans are personal, so try some out and find something you can work with that is comfortable. The Sennheiser 280 is not bad, but not as good as the ATH-M50. Closed designs are best for noisy environment, obviously, best to have an open pair and a closed pair.

    If you want mixing and measuring suite, just get an RME box. You get Totalmix and all the cool measuring tools.

    Cans are not linear, and for a number of reasons which have been detailed at great length elsewhere, cans are useless for mixing. The best you can do is to create a mix that sounds good on your cans, and someone else's cans, but sounds horrible on a lot of other systems. You have to have a pair of speakers to do a mixdown, there is no way around it.