@Vitaliy_Kiselev Capitalism is nothing more then free voluntary trade and property rights. I am not sure where your compering Capitalism to Cannibalism. Unless you just want to say something cool instead of making sense. If you against free trade and property rights then I should be able come over to your house and just take your camera because I think I need it more then you do.

Capitalism to Cannibalism. Unless you just want to say something cool instead of making sense. If you against free trade and property rights then I should be able come over to your house and just take your camera because I think I need it more then you do.

I made change so people could understand that you mean. Making exaggeration.

If you against free trade and property rights then I should be able come over to your house and just take your camera because I think I need it more then you do.

I think you are lost now going from "free market" to "survival of the fittest" and after it to some strange understanding of social systems within society making it inside your mind into some absolutist commune :-)

If you against free trade and property rights then I should be able come over to your house and just take your camera because I think I need it more then you do.

'It will take away your freedom' is the stupid knockout argument that works everytime in the USA and way too many people fall for it.

I don't even know what's your point anymore, now you're throwing everything in a pot. One last thing though: Welfare progrmas cost money. Of course they do, as they offer advantages and services to a huge number of people WHO HAVE NO LOBBY FOR THEIR INTERESTS AND NEEDS. But you're not seriously blaming welfare programs to be the reason of countries like Germany or Sweden 'declining'.

EDIT

Government programs are the most unique business for corporations. No competition, profits insured by the taxpayers..

Thanks , that's my point and obviously you're not understanding. Governments outsourcing their own work to the private sector IS PART OF DEREGULATION (the thing you keep praising blindly); you see it more an more in postdemocratic countries, even in France where there traditionally is a strong believe in responsibility of the government. What happens is that governments outsource their competence to the private sector and money and power starts floating where it's best for the free market, not the state (and it's people who don't have a lobby working for them).

@stip You know exactly whats my point is that social programs will only help those who able to capture the tax money and those are the large corporation who are able to pay off politicians and not the middle class. Under the soviet stile socialism the bureaucrats rule through a brute force savagery, under the social democracy the corporations rule. Under the free market the consumer rule through voting with their purchase.

under the social democracy the corporations rule

In postdemocracies, yes, and that's because of your beloved deregulation, did you read the above?

Under the free market the consumer rule through voting with their purchase.

You still believe that do you?

And, you still put social democracy and socialism into one pot. Well, who cares anyway...

Under the free market the consumer rule through voting with their purchase.

I think people must be mad in this case, as all of them flee to the countries with social systems and run from "free market prosperity". Strange people. Do not understand their happiness.

Prove me wrong scientifically and not just announce thoughts..

Do not go personal. You can express your though, he also can :-)

well they do mostly for getting on the dole and abuse the system. Just ask the British, Dutch and the Swedish how they like their immigrants going there and make 6-10 kids and collect their tax money.

Do you want to say that only real properly working "free market" existed and could exist in US?
As it seems like having big issues in bunch of other countries where this immigrants come from.

Can you, please compare formal numbers and statistics between bad social systems and good "free markets" one.

Corporate profits have never been better under any U.S. President,

Because corporations are basically part of the government now. It's called Corporate Fascism or Corporatism. As the government grows, so do the protection and entitlements they get. The government then regulates and taxes the shit out of any middle-class or start-up businesses making it impossible to offer competing goods or services. And if that weren't enough, the government and clown-boy Obama are socializing their losses... so we foot the bill when they fail. Of course they're making all time profits!

Now... Why does someone like Warren Buffet advocate for businesses paying higher taxes? Because the taxes really make no difference to him... and taxing his competitors to death with the help of the government is MUCH more profitable than competing with them on the free-market with real goods and services. Let's see, R&D for more goods and products? Or tax competitors to death? Are people starting to see the trickery yet?

In postdemocracies, yes, and that's because of your beloved deregulation, did you read the above?

No, no. Absolutely wrong. You're making the case that "regulation" is done by these magical fairy-people who can do no wrong. Heavy regulation never works, because once you put that much power in place, the Regulators tend to be the same people you want them to regulate...

Businesses and Governments are ALL JUST PEOPLE. Where the hell did people get the idea that one is more accountable than the other? At least in a real competitive-market, business have to provide people with something... or else they're out of the trading game and out of profits. Government just has a monopoly on force and can basically kill or imprison you if what you/they vote into law isn't fallowed. Gee, I wonder which system sounds more prone to corruption?

@Vitality_Kiselev We never had a complete free market anywere in the world and probably until we have central banking we will never have. Banking is one industry I believe there has to be regulation against speculators. Speculations with currencies can de-rail the entire economy. But there is a good hope for the new digital crypto currencies what will might revolutionize the world medium of exchange. I see them as the greatest threat to Banksters and not the looser OWS. A real example Hong Kong vs India. The two great British experiment. India with all their natural resources was set up as a socialist system with heavy regulations, look at the poverty there. Hong Kong was set up with as free market system with only industries regulated the housing and banking. Guess what is the only industry facing constant problems in Hong Kong, the housing market. Hong Kong is one of the most wealthiest places on earth with no natural resources what so ever. Singapore followed the a similar model after the Hong Kong success and look at it now.

Heavy regulation never works

If you would have read carefully you'd seen that I said exactely this. Just like heavy deregulation never works. But for some people it's always either black or white, love or hate ect.

@stip I never called anyone an idiot.. but I don't think you understand economics and human action. There is nothing wrong to be economically ignorant, because it is not a simple science... but to make a laud noise in a state of ignorance will cause just more harm to society.. example of the 160 Million dead in the last century through experimenting with social planing.. Those leaders who did that were voted in by economically challenged citizens. They all promised the great civilized society.