I shoot with the GH3 for weddings, and we have never denoised a shot yet.
Dont go over ISO 1600 or use Auto ISO ever for video. The camera will ramp up to 6400 almost everytime in lowlight in AUTO mode.
For very low light, film AVCHD 25p and you can dial shutter speed down to 1/30 if there is not much motion. Otherwise stick with AVCHD 50P and 1/50 shutter looks just fine.
We also shoot +1 on Noise Reduction on Natural profile.
Simply put, In camera sharpening and contrast can kill your image. Remember you can always adjust contrast, sharpening, saturation and color grade in post. You can't get back information once it's lost or over pushed to an extreme in-camera.
It's a double edged sword. You can get what appears to be great contrast in-camera while shooting. But you can't do much when say your whites and/or blacks are crushed due to extreme in-camera settings for contrast. Shoot in the middle or soft contrast and you can always push contrast to your personal taste in post. There's still pixel information (dynamic range) there to work with since you've shot with contrast settings all the way down in-camera. Same goes for sharpening. You can get what appears to be a "sharper" image with in-camera settings while shooting. But over sharpened images in-camera also exaggerate and bring out aliasing and noise. Again once it's there it's a bitch to remove or correct.
Check out these vids from Fenchel & Janisch They"ll explain all your questions in detail with examples....
Hope this helps and good luck.
I shoot with everything in -5 except the saturation I put it in -3 to get some colour instead of grey, but for sure never put saturation over -2, I dont think I am the only one who says that. I am curious for a "cheap" lense that I am not sure if its going to work. I am talking about tamron adaptall and adaptall 2 mount. If I understand correctly these series of tamron can be used with any slr with the relevant adapter that as I see in ebay these adapters are not as expensive as adapters from one brand of slr to another, and I found on b&h tamron adaptall 28-105 f/2.8 at about 500$ and adapter for micro4/3 in ebay between 25-40$. I am not gonna have auto focus at all but I wouldn't be able anyway to have auto focus under low light, as I test the gh3 I discovered that autofocus works only in perfect lighting conditions. If light is good auto focus is better from most of other slrs, probably the best. But in low light :( So does anyone know if the adaptall tamron is going to work with the appropriate adapter(Sorry for my english if I have mistakes and for the big post, I trying to fix noise problem as most of gh3 users)
@starios - I didn't see you mention what mode you were shooting in (i.e. MOV vs. AVCHD). It's been mentioned by many users here and elsewhere that the MOV mode produces a cleaner image. Also, that lens you're using is crap in low light. You need something faster. Hopefully with a constant aperture throughout the zoom range. Fast zooms cost money. So I'd recommend primes since their usually much better in low light and available in a wide variety of choices for all budgets. But this might not be good for your type of work. I've only ever shot two weddings in my life. So I'm no expert in that type of scenario. That's extremely tough work (shooting weddings). Total respect to all who earn a living doing it.
I'm sure there are other threads around. But I found this one pretty insightful:
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/859/video-friendly-lenses-for-lumix-dslrs/p1
Hi There. Great forum with great info btw. Very happy I found it !
I'm pretty dumb when it comes to video and this is really the first time I'm trying it, but have been into photography for many years. I picked up a GH3 & 12-35 last week and have been shooting in MOV 1920x1080 50p 50Mbps. I have been shooting in Creative Video Mode (Aperture Priority) however I see many people shooting in Manual mode or Shutter priority with a fixed shutter speed.
Can someone explain why they do this? What advantage is there at having a fixed shutter speed? There seems to be some relationship between the frame rate and the shutter speed.
Should I be leaving my shutter at double my frame rate ... i.e. 1/100 sec?
I should probably start shooting in Manual instead of Aperture mode as well I guess. I don't really want to shoot in Shutter Priority as I like to be in control of the aperture. I bought a variable ND filter last week as well because here in Hong Kong the sun is so bright it would make it impossible to use any open apertures otherwise. Cheers.
@deang001 Check out the video links I posted just above on this page. Explains a lot for beginning DSLR shooters. Should answer many of your questions plus a few.
When shooting video - shutter speed set at double the frames per second is the "golden rule". You can bend this rule but my experience has shown you need to stay in this range. Eg: shooting 60 fps at 125 will yield the most natural movement and clarity. Shutter speed set too fast will give you very jittery, jumpy and strobe like video instead of smooth motion blur where appropriate. SS too slow will give you soft and blurry video even with the slightest movement via camera shake or subject movement.
Do a test with a (1) very high and (2) very low shutter speed. Both exposed properly via aperture. In both tests point the camera at your face held out at arms length. While standing and camera pointing at you at arms length, spin around 2 or 3 times slowly in place. (Don't get dizzy and drop the camera!) now look at the two tests.... You'll see what I mean.
All things said i think you'll eventually find that Manual shooting (including manual focus) gives you the most control when shooting video.
Hope this makes sense... I've not had my coffee this morning. Good luck!
Thanks, Maddog15 for the reply and information. Very nice videos !
I will try shooting with 1/100 SS this weekend and be in Manual mode as opposed to Aperture mode. I think most else regarding exposure is the same as photography, but they differ in so far as shutter speed choice goes.
I really like street photography so want to do this with video as well. Things move pretty quickly on the street so while shooting in Manual mode is no issue, getting the variable ND filter adjusted quickly for a nice exposure if wanting to use a wide aperture will be challenging :)
I had read enough before I went out shooting last weekend to have the settings quite flat (-4, -3, -2, -5), but I may try even flatter next time (-5, -5, -3, -5).
Downloaded the Adobe Premiere trial and done a few tutorials from the website. The program seems very powerful.
Thanks again.
Anybody else found major differences between running the GH3 in high I dynamic mode and standard I dynamic mode when using manual lenses? I'm finding the standard mode much more reliable for getting better skin tones.
@Sph1nxster To be honest I don't even mess with iDynamic on my Gh3 after doing initial tests with iDynamic. I'm getting great results with flesh tones and tonal range in general. Plus I don't really like any camera doing its own post "magic" beyond capturing great quality video right out of the gate period. (Yes I realize i'ts "digital" videography so there's a certain amount of "magic" happening as soon as you press record.) I just prefer to shoot as raw as i can, then do what i need in post. Perhaps others have had success with iDynamic as I'm just one person with one opinion. Anyway that's my two cents. Hope it helps.
deang001 I suggest even that maddog15 is right for the golden rool, I suggest shooting with ss at 50-60 cause all the dvds except blurays and youtube, vimeo dont go over 30fps and they do that by deleting frames so, if you are going to have 25 or 30 fps with ss 100-125 depends what you shoot, means jittering and believe me, frame blending dont blent nice to the eye this kind of frames except if frames have close distances to each other, like 50fps 50ss so blending in 25fps will create something like 25ss (of course blury) instead of ss 100 that will create a frame with 2 blury frames one here and one there :P
About iDynamic, I am not sure what it does but I dont like the effect of enlightening and darking my shots before I press record and keep the last brightness the camera thought would be right when I shoot, as I tested I may shoot twice the same frame and I am gonna have different brightness in two shots and I dont know what else may be different because the camera counted in the begining of my shot by itself the right settings :P
3rd In about two-three weeks I am going to have my brand new OLD tokina tv lens with the risk of not working :P Well, I took the risk to buy from ebay this lens and I will upload my tests immediately, everything is manual, it is c-mount,12.5-75mm, aperture is from f/1.2 to f/16 (fading in and out, without gaps for stops) that is going to be about f/2-22 because of the c-mount 1.5x teleconverter I also ordered and then to m4/3 adapter (285 euros all). If this works means that the solution of fast and also zoom lenses it there, in old lenses, except if you have thousands to spend.
Guys ... another quick question.
Is there anything wrong with shooting in Shutter Priority in movie mode as opposed to Manual? I have the 14-42PZ and 45-175PZ lenses. Is there a huge degradation in image quality if these lenses are stopping down to f/11 & f/16 and etc? I see from reviews that there is in still quality, but how about for video?
I ask, because there are sometimes when I just want to film stuff happening on the street and it's very difficult to shoot in manual and adjust a variable nd filter to get the correct exposure as it's quite bright over here in Hong Kong.
"deang001 I suggest even that maddog15 is right for the golden rool, I suggest shooting with ss at 50-60 cause all the dvds except blurays and youtube, vimeo dont go over 30fps and they do that by deleting frames so, if you are going to have 25 or 30 fps with ss 100-125 depends what you shoot, means jittering and believe me, frame blending dont blent nice to the eye this kind of frames except if frames have close distances to each other, like 50fps 50ss so blending in 25fps will create something like 25ss (of course blury) instead of ss 100 that will create a frame with 2 blury frames one here and one there :P"
Thank you for the advice, Starios.
@deang001 The thing you have to be careful about when shooting video on Shutter Priority is you're allowing, or rather forcing, the camera to make exposure corrections via the only perimeters left.... f-stop and ISO.
e.g. You're shooting in a darkly lit room with the shutter speed set at 50 and camera on Shutter priority. The camera will raise the ISO in an effort to get a proper exposure. When the ISO goes above say 16000 (and it will) you'll get terrible noise and therefore a terrible video. Shutter priority will work better outside with a lot of light. (Though you now have no control over depth of field as the f-stop will likely automatically go higher because it's so bright outside) On "S" the camera will quickly display what it is setting the ISO to when you half press the shutter release button on the front. Point it around the room and notice how the ISO on "S" mode will change drastically from area to area. The only benefit to shooting video in "S" mode is the camera will make the exposure adjustment when your say walking outside around the house and then into the darker garage area. This is assuming you're shooting outside where there's plenty of light everywhere. If the ISO only fluctuates between maybe 200 and 800 so you're safe. You can go as low as 30 on Shutter Speed while shooting 24fps. More burry movements but if you're not shooting anything fast you'll be fine. I try not to shoot video above ISO 800 and always shoot in Manual mode personally.
Here's a good reference for low light shooting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL5AE50B51597773AC&feature=player_detailpage&v=AZ9aIB57-Nw
Hey Maddog - thanks for the advice.
The only time I would want to use Shutter priority is when doing some street shooting outside where there is always plenty of light but not enough time to adjust a variable ND filter.
Because it's so bright over here, the camera will choose some pretty small apertures to get correct exposure. What I was asking is will apertures of around f/11, f16 and above see a degradation in image quality (sharpness) for video?
The lenses I have are the 14-42PZ and 45-175PZ. The DOF and lack of aperture control is no issue. Just worried about diffraction etc and if it's as relevant for video as it is for stills.
Cheers !
@deang001 That's a good question and difficult to answer as different lenses have different finicky personalities regarding diffraction. "By the book" the sweet spot is supposed to be f4 and up. (I think.) But my personal experience has taught me that because every lens has its own personality/quirks - I test each lens as soon as I buy it. I have an old but nice manual focus 50mm f2 Pentax prime lens. At f16 it out performs the Pany 14-142mm as far as full frame clarity and sharpness at the same f-stop. It's not supposed to (as the Pany lens is new, made for the m4/3 camera etc etc...) But the prime 50mm Pentax does. Go figure! Still learning a lot myself.
That's my two cents. Perhaps others will post a more educated opinion on the subject. I'd like to know more myself.
Natural -5 contrast gives the most DR.
The problem I have with this setting is that I feel it flattens way too much the mid tones. Because of that I can't seem to recover good skin tones in post, they always look kinda chalky.
I prefer shooting in standard with 0 contrast and lift the shadows as the information seems to be well encoded.
Small skin tone test here : Standard (I like to shoot) vs Natural -5
@yak Nice comparison. I fight that battle with skin tones too. Flat and chalky. Good description. To date the best remedy I've found isn't the camera but how well or dynamic my subject is lit. I have my fingers crossed VK and the crew will get a GH3 hack in progress with a higher bit rate than 72Mb/s. (My GH2 with Moon T5 at 153Mb/s added so much more information and wiggle room to play with in post) Sorry...kina got off topic for second.
I really hope a hack gives us room too color correct too. For now i'm sticking with standard 0 contrast.
@yak Dead on with this. thanks for sharing.
@yak Thanks. My own experience confirmed this as well, I'll stick with the Standard setting, too.
Is there any real info about the hack ?
@yak I've been using Standard with Sharpness turned down at tad as well... Just wondering whether you did any similar tests to see how the image looks with Standard profile, Contrast dialed down to -4 or -5... What were your reasons for leaving contrast set at 0? I've been going back and forth myself, guess I should do some similar tests...
I saw this video
in the 12-35mm 2.8 lens thread and really liked the look. On the vimeo page he says he was using Vivid dialed down. I have never tried that because it seems like ending up at neutral anyway but I think now I might run a test when I get some time and see what it does.@RatLabProductions Yeah, great test. I saw this and can't believe it's Vivid Dialed down. Regardless I'm finding myself going against the golden rule of dialing Contrast, Sat and Sharpness all the way down on the GH3. As apposed to everything at -5 I'm doing tests now with -2 contrast, -3 saturation, -3 Sharpness. I'll post a vid when I get time.
@maddog15 Would love to see your results. I'm not sold on shooting really flat with an 8bit codec. I'm so swamped with post work this month I won't get to play with picture tests till mid Sept.
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