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Best indoor mic for under $1,000?
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  • VK that $40 ISK CM-20C hyper colloid mic is a very good mic, my SennHeiser K6 is now in the bottom draw. No internal battery, but works excellent on 48v phantom power. Nice rich tone for voice and very low noise, actually it's the quietest mic I own and good sensitivity.

    Glad that you like it. In fact it is very little known mike. Most go to Oktava. Hope that more guys start to use it with time.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev, VK that $40 ISK CM-20C hyper colloid mic is a very good mic, my SennHeiser K6 is now in the bottom draw. No internal battery, but works excellent on 48v phantom power. Nice rich tone for voice and very low noise, actually it's the quietest mic I own and good sensitivity. It's on my Hmc 152 at the moment but works well on the Zoom H4n also.

    Very solid and well made, XLR connections are good and tight and socket doesn't rattle.

    Thanks for the recommendation, was cheaper from the Ozzy link than eBay.

  • @DrDave: Nice! I love Tanya's playing, as well as her duet partner in crime: Eric Zivian.

    Cool that you did this piece.

    O

  • In a video you have dialog, foley, soundtrack, all need to be recorded. In a music video, which is a huge part of the market, you have different kinds of music in addition to sung and spoken voice. In a large production, all of these things are routinely recorded in a screening studio and synced to the video. If you are only interested in booming a mic, you won't get the best sound, but in this case you want the MK41. If you are only ever going to record dialog, I see that a niche market.

    Much of the dialog in film and TV, indie, and so on, is not particularly well recorded. With good placement, you can do much better. Much of the music is not very well recorded. If you just want to boom the mics, and do no post processing, voice over and so on, the reflections play more of a role than the mic, and here you need to tune the studio acoustically, and in such a way that it doesn't show up in the video.

    There's a very interesting AES paper on phase advantages using stereo spot mics. If you have the cash, you can try using a stereo pair of lightweight mics in an ORTF configuration, with no added delay in the signal path. But here is the thing: most people will opt for a mono spot, because it is just easier. Easier, cheaper, faster.

    Here's a quick spoken interview I did with an AB setup with two MKH 40, which I actually paid $1800 for the pair, so well under the $1000 per mic mentioned in the thread title. They are a bit more now usually $1100 if you look around. The goal was to capture as much color, emotion and detail as possible in the spoken voices. You can see if you think it makes a difference. Some people will like the sound, other will prefer more of a "TV" sound, and still others will want more of the "lav" sound.

  • I think mic'ing for instruments/singers/voice-over is a category of recording that has limited appeal/relevance in this thread since most here are interested in recording dialogue spoken by subjects being filmed.

    As such I was hoping you might be able to share any particular 'booming' techniques/tips you might have or a list of things one shouldn't do since that's this is the real interest of those looking to buy 'indoor' microphones.

  • Microphone placement is a big subject, but very briefly, the diagrams in the "books" are wrong, and one reason is of course that no two instruments or voices sound the same, and that therefore there is no "correct" microphone placement.

    Most common mistakes are pointing the mic directly at the sound source ("beamy"), phase problems and timing problems, and on instruments locating the mic near are source of air turbulence, like a sound hole or the end of a flute, fingerholes, etc. Other problems center around the placement of the mic-sound source pair in a room, as reflections are a major cause of bad sound, using the wrong kind of acoustic tuning materials.

    I would say I hear weird reflections in most of the sound I hear on video.

    Typically on voice, the wrong kind of wind screen is used, and sibilance is exacerbated by the wrong kind of reverb, and so on. Typically on instruments, the engineer is incapable of quickly identifying the correct spot to place the mic, and, even worse, will use the same spot for a particular scene and ignore the fact that different instruments and voices are, well, different. Very different.

    There's only one way to place a mic, which is to hook the mic up to a portable recorder, put on a pair of insulated cans and move the mic around until you get it just right while the player, speaker or singer goes through a range of sounds. You see this maybe one on one hundred sessions. Most times, the engineer "knows best" and doesn't do a full check. They sit in the back in front of a big mixer (and who uses a big mixer?) and never do an AB in the room with the sound source, taking the headphones off, putting them back on, and so on. Ninety percent of engineers and producers in America can't read a film score. Now that other ten percent, well, you have some real geniuses working in the field, of course.

    An analogy would be using the same F stop, shutter speed and Color temp in a video shoot without really checking to see if you have the right settings, and saying something like, oh, indoors I always use 2800K. Well, that might be a starting point.

    Obviously in video, you have the visual component to deal with, although a lot of video sound is provided in post.

  • @DrDave Perhaps you could elaborate further on microphone placement since it's so important?

  • There is absolutely no best mic for under $1000 because the cash to value ratio is skewed at the $1000 price point--it is in between levels. There is a best mic for around $300, and you could set another price point around $1400. At $1000 you are better off spending the whole $1000 on say two Oktavas, a couple of extra capsules and maybe even a recorder, depending on the market. The AKGs are not serious mics, just my 2 cents, they are OK for spot mics. You will find thousands of opinions on mics, but very few good recordings.

    You will find people defend a mic, trash a mic, tweak a mic, swap out the capsules, all valid pursuits, and yet, even in the best studios you get sound which "Superyawn". In fact, Superyawn should be the name of the company. That's because placement is the key thing.

    NB: Placement beats price.

    Having said that, if you raise the price point a bit you can get some very nice mics for a bit more money, like the Schoeps MK 41 or the Sennheiser MKH 40.

  • @spacewig The Oktava's do sound good as you say but are probably amongst the most difficult of their kind to work with due to their handling noise. I also have a NTG-3 which is great (very similar to a 416) but I nearly always pick the Oktava over it when indoors. I might checkout a Superlux as they are so cheap ;).

  • @pundit You're right, moving the mic fast enough, especially if a draft is present, can cause noticeable low freq rumble but this is an issue I've encountered so infrequently indoors as to not even merit comment. If the air conditioning is strong enough to create air turbulence that causes rumble you will usually have a much bigger problem which is the vent's white noise; I will try everything to turn that thing off because it can be a major pain to remove in post, even with great NR software.

    The Oktava's sound very good for the price but people forget they are originally intended as set-and-forget instrument mics that weren't designed to be manipulated during use; they are notoriously problematic for handling noise. I find the S241 so much easier to work with and, due to its frequency response, retain a more open sound. They're also lower noise and more sensitive but they don't have a hyper-cardioid capsule option like the MK-012 though I haven't yet found that a problem. For the record, I also own and use a 416 but prefer the superlux indoors.

  • @spacewig Wind noise, rather air turbulence, is definitely a regular problem indoors. Air conditioning is a common cause of low frequency noise.

    Also when booming with both foam windshield and low cut I still couldn't swing the boom very fast without inducing a fair amount of rumble in the Oktava.

    Inspite much experimenting with several different types of foam windshields turbulence would still often show up in the audio. Even if it was difficult to hear it would show up on the meters and could rob overall headroom.

    The best windshield I found was the Rycote Baby Ball Gag. For additional protection I added the optional fluffy and that would allow some pretty fast boom movements without problems.

  • The yoga is a shocker VK, I've that one a few other models of their shotguns and they are very poor sensitivity and lack the rich tones of the sennheiser K6 etc. Strangely enough, their lavs are quite good though.

    I've order the Isk, sound interesting, should have it next week. :-)

  • @robertGL Handling noise is much better than Oktava but to be fair those mics were never intended as boom mics. As for wind noise, non-existent if you're indoors...

  • @dancerchris

    I personally used only ISK CM-20C. As for Yoga, I just found it accidently on ebay :-)

  • @Vitaly

    The ISK CM10 sounds interesting but the other mike you suggested, the Yoga CT 03 has a sensitivity rated at -70 dB. That is pretty low and may require a lot of pre-amping that would introduce noise. As a reference the ISK CM10 has a sensitivity rating of -38 dB.

  • Just put one of these on everyone in the shoot. They actually work pretty well.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/111045219452?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

    Other than that follow Vitaliy's advice.

  • @spacewig how is the handling and wind noise on the superlux mics on a boom?

    @inviev I think that for dialogue purposes, microphone selections are not entirely a big deal in the super-cardioid range.. sure, the top shelf offerings from sennheiser and schoeps are going to be worth the money, given the scale of the productions they are generally used... but from what I'm reading, the cheaper offerings from Rode down to the chinese 20+$ mics can provide successful audio capture when properly used

  • @robertGL They are cardioid capsules which I find much better for dealing with reverb in tight or sparse spaces. Also, I find a lot of noise can be controlled if one prepares properly. For example, going to your locations alone with your sound gear and good closed-back headphones to listen to the ambient sounds present in said location allows you to devise effective strategies/alternatives to minimize noise in your dialogue recordings.

  • Don't use $30 mics. It's like using your SD DV camcorder for your current HD productions.

    No, it's not. And very far from it.

    Also, it is much better to properly use such $30 mike than wait to get pricey one or use one without necessary skills (and skills shooting indoors come with expirience).

  • If you shoot on proper isolated studios, that's fine, but like said many times, it's not a good mic for indoor (normal situations for low/no budget with lot of echos) - between I see more Schoeps and Neumann than 416 when money isn't an issue ("industry standard"...). I'm not often in charge of the sound but a good all-around mic that I use sometimes (slighty more than 1000$ though but sometimes there is some used ones at "good" prices...) is Sanken CS3e. Very good outdoor shotgun but even in bad indoor it works quite well (way better than 416 senn).

  • There is a reason why Foley and ADR studios use also the Senn 416 shotgun mic. That's to have consistent sound with the original dialogue and ambient tracks. Don't use $30 mics. It's like using your SD DV camcorder for your current HD productions. Everybody could use a largish sensor camera for megabucks production look shallow depth of field, but good sound is the main difference with good productions. Just my .02 euros

  • Hard to believe those $25 - $40 mics would be the best indoor mic under $1000 ?

    :-) May be :-)

    In fact, they are good mikes.

  • Hard to believe those $25 - $40 mics would be the best indoor mic under $1000 ?

    Anyway, found this: Audix SCX1/HC Microphone, price about $500 . Was reading some reviews and someone described it as "poor mans Schoeps".

  • spacewig: wow! I wish i knew about these before.. what caps do you have? cardiod or hyper? 180 shipped for a matched pair is an amazing deal

  • @acuriousman A mic's bass response is irrelevant in this context as you can attenuate/eliminate low frequencies with a high-pass filter/EQ in post. This should not be a determining factor in your purchase.