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2K BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera, active m43, $995
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  • Pocket Cinema Camera is right around the corner let's hope for the best as expected July release.

  • this camera is so hilariously small https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.522205601161592.1073741828.106338076081682&type=3

    EDIT: @Tscheckoff The internal recorder also does 10-bit 4:2:2, what's the advantage of an external one?

  • @Perder

    The advantages would be cheaper, longer, more reliable recording media as well as redundant recording or proxy recording.

    The disadvantages would be a bigger rig and no RAW option when recording externally only..

  • @Brian202020 So you're saying it CAN record RAW to the SD Card?

  • EDIT: I read wrong.. @Brian202020 Good points.

    @peternap Yes, it has been stated several times that it will have 12-bit lossless compressed CinemaDNG straight to SD, and Blackmagic has confirmed that this feature should be ready for the initial release..

  • Yep, They've said many times the 64GB/95mbs cards will work. I do believe there's many pictures around with the cam and this card too from day 1. I always laugh every time I see the pictures of the camera just hanging off the back of that huge lens.

  • @perder:

    Brain mentioned it already - to sum it up again -> External recorder (a Ninja 2 for example) because: MUCH bigger space -> Means WAY longer record time, HDDs and SSDs are usable - so no need for an expensive bunch of SDXC cards, way better handling (because the external drive is more easily swappable and transportable to your PC), the external monitor function with peaking, zebras, false color and so on is also nice and useful AND also kind of important: "Smaller" (less space taking) codecs are available if you don´t need the highest bitrates of the internal ones. Oh. And you also get the option for DNxHD and you have a redundant recording - Also very nice and useful. So a lot of "pros" for an external recorder (if you don´t need the smallest an lightest rig). ^^

    I think that´s the first time I really can say: An external recorder is a VERY GOOD investment and an option for me ^^.

  • @Tscheckoff

    This is interesting, been thinking if I could connect my ninja to BMPC to obtain Pro Res, bypassing SD compression. But will there be a bottle neck somewhere? My impression is that Ninja or the like actually transcodes on the fly, so for instance MTS to Ninja gets transcoded to pro res before footage gets written on disk in ninja casing. Bit rates coming out of BMPC sound pretty huge already, so will transcoding huge files slow the whole process? Dropped frames? Can the ninja recognise it is being fed ProRes images, and thus records footage without transcoding?

    On a side note, what actually comes out of the HDMI output in the BMPC? Is it Pro res imagery itself, or something else? Cant be RAW right?

  • @Kazuo: SD is simply a storage medium, it neither compresses nor transcodes anything, the Ninja, or Blackmagic's own Hyperdeck Shuttle II for that matter just encode an incoming HDMI (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI ) output from a device be it a BMPCC or any other unencrypted HDMI source.

  • @kazuo

    HDMI and SDI is always an uncompressed signal. Some are 8bit, but most are 10bit. This is the real question, is the BMPCC's HDMI signal 10bit? The internal ProRes 422(HQ) recording is 10bit, so if the HDMI is 10bit, any recording device that records ProRes 422(HQ) should make an identical file as the internal recording.

  • @kazuo: As already mentioned by brian - HDMI is always uncompressed. So you can record externally with the codec you want.

    @Brian202020: Yes. The HDMI offers 10-bit YUV 4:2:2

  • Thanks guys for the heads up.

    @DocoDocoman

    About SD compression, I was thinking of an instance like the GH2, which compresses images when writing MTS files to SD card. Would you say files written on SD cards are highly compressed as opposed to what comes out via the HDMI output? So if HDMI is uncompressed, then what about the Pro res imagery that gets written to the SD card internally in the BMPC. I know Pro Res is Pro Res there is no such thing as compressed pro res, or it there?

    How much Pro Res footage can a humble SD card hold?

  • @kazuo, there are two types of compression, lossy (most common), and lossless.

    • Lossless compression is identical to uncompressed, but with smaller file sizes (like a .zip file).

    • Lossy compression throws data away to get smaller filesizes. The quality depends on the codec used, the bitrate, and (less obviously) also the quality of the encoder itself. Higher bitrate = better quality, but larger files. Cameras like the GH2 use the AVCHD codec (a flavour of H.264).

    • 'Visually lossless' compression is actually lossy as above, but the vendor believes you won't be able to see the lost details.

    ProRes is lossy, but far less than a typical AVCHD (before hacking : ). And AVCHD is only 8bit 4:2:0, while ProRes can be better (10bit etc).

  • I got flamed for suggesting it before but in the end the argument for the pocket over the EF/MFT version was its small stealth ability. Surely that gets negated once you stick a ProRes recorder on it...

    My real question was if the pocket ships with RAW it makes me wonder if the version of resolve they give away with it can handle the version of RAW?

  • @jimmykorea You got "flamed" because you seemed to not be able to stand the fact people wanted to build a larger rig out of the BMPCC and if I'm not mistaken, you said anything that wasn't shot with cameras of the likes of Red and Alexas are shit. Not a very good thing to say on boards like this. I won't get into that because it's so far of base and uneducated that it's embarrassing. You're inability to see anybody elses opinion is what gets you in trouble here. Now for your current question. The BMPCC shoots 1080 RAW, the free version of Resolve handles up to 1080, so it's fine. You only need the paid version when you are using the 2.5k and 4k footage.

  • Why on earth would you want to stick a recorder on the pocket cam unless you need really, really long recordings? (and don´t have other cameras to use for such occasions) Maybe if you edit in Avid and shoot something you want to edit as quickly as possible.. Save on "expensive" sdxc cards? Well, if that outlay is an issue and you don´t find the pocketability (lightweight / small size) important.

    Some people tend to focus on fringe elements, maybe because they are not fringe elements to themselves.

  • @RRRR:

    Easy answer: Because it´s quite annoying to handle SD cards every 40 min. with ProRes HQ 220 (and a 64GB SDXC card for example)? And 40 minutes are not THAT long. Yes. You get 80 minutes max. with a very expensive 128GB card. But then again - No RAW recording is possible because the 128GB SDXC cards are just too slow. And actually there is only the ProRes HQ 220 codec implemented inside the camera (beside the RAW mode - as far as I know). I hope that they will also offer "lighter" codecs later (at least over firmware updates). But actually an external recorder is just the better solution.

    Also don´t forget: If you want to shoot quite comfortable, you also need an external monitor - Because the internal one isn´t adjustable at all (compared to the monitors of the Panasonic GH series, the smaller Nikons or Canons - or any other video oriented cameras on the market). So you also get an external monitor with the recorder function. And also other pros are present (DNxHD option, "light" codecs are available, the external drives are WAY easier to change - no need to remove the camera from your rig - or small shoulder support - just to change the SD card ... I mentioned all together already a few posts above).

    I know that you kind of "destroy" the small form factor and lightweight built. But hey - You can still choose / switch inbetween internal and external recording. ^^

  • For real filmaking and not just pointing a camera around on vacation at your topless overweight wife then storage of around 30 minutes or a lot less is absolutely fine. Don't forget how real film works. if people plan a shoot then most don't need more than 10 minutes and anyway the cards are dropping in price like a rock along with increases in capacity and speed. People seem to contradict themselves on here, they want Pro levels systems in place at the same time babbling on about its all about creativity and overcoming obstacles. I've seen guys discuss like crazy the merits of different codecs and all they do is wedding videos. Laughable really if it wasn't so pathetic.

  • The thing I don't like with the whole it's about the creativity not the camera discussion is I actually agree. the problem is I also recognise that if you want to succeed then purposely having marginally 'good enough' equipment is like your trying to cripple yourself. And my main problem is people give the same tired examples like Blairwitch, etc that was done on a cheap camera. Well they are the exception not the rule. But the consensus among everyone is that creativity trumps equipment when 99% of the time that's simply not true and ideally you really want to have both creativity and decent equipment. (And know how to use both)

    Now I expect this to be deleted cause its not 'on topic'but actually it completely is cause the BM cameras are making a PRO Image possible with good dynamic range. So everything I think about other cheap cameras isn't relevant to the Pocket Cam cause I believe it is the first truly dirt cheap camera that you actually could make a movie on and not be held back by the cheapness of the equipment. Something worth getting excited about and also we can drop the whole creativity/ equipment discussion. if you make rubbish now, it's cause you are a rubbish filmmaker. We can't fall back on blaming our tools anymore.

  • @vicharris

    Actually the LITE version of RESOLVE handles 2.5K and 4K and 5K footage perfectly fine. (Even RED and Arri RAW too)

    You are only limited in the render / output resolution to 1920.

    The only other differences are

    Single GPU support

    Can't do 3D

    Noise reduction not enabled.

    Everything else is EXACTLY the same as the full version.

    jb

  • @jimmykorea "...if you make rubbish now, it's cause you are a rubbish filmmaker."

    Pushing your own reasoning to its logical end, the reason why you've been writing shit so far is because you're full of it? Spare us your rigmarole

  • @jimmykorea

    Try to be on topic. And without causing conflicts out of nothing.

  • I am going to pre-order a BMPCC today!!! It took me all this time to save up the money ....

    Anyways MY question is B & H my best bet to get it the soonest?

    I figured that they would probably get the largest shipment... Thoughts?

  • @johnbrawly Yes, I didn't explain myself properly but that's what I meant. Thanks for the clarification.

  • The 10 mins of footage comment makes me giggle. Tells me all I need to know about real experience. :)