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ColorGHear [PART 2]
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  • Film Grain tutorial #1 is now live.

    GHearHead veterans are familiar with my brain-mouth thing. I think one thing, and say something different and I don't realize it until I'm watching the video, so this latest gaff should be no surprise...

    In it, I said: "The process is like reshooting your footage on film." ...that's ridiculous. If I re-shot on film I would have more DR. It's more like transferring your footage to film. The primers prep for transfer, the filmstock runs it through the emulsion, and the throttle reigns it in. You can also experiment with using 2 primers and 2 throttles... it's fun.

    I've been having so much fun playing with it, I've been neglecting other things... like recording tutorials. :)

    I've updated the stocks, so if you downloaded them before yesterday, delete everything in the film stocks folder except the 2 strip and Hulk, and replace with the new. If you have a 2398 in your folder, you're using the wrong one. It should be 5298.

  • @shian, please be kind to clarify one thing. 2 days ago I upgraded to CG Toolkit 1.1. (there were strip and Hulk only). Where can I get these new film stocks? Should I re-upgade to CG Toolkit 1.1 again? And where is this new "Film Grain tutorial"? Is it the tutorial "11) ColorGHear: Film Stocks and GHearing-Up" in the CGT Member Downloads page?

  • The new film Stock Ghears are CG Pro only. Read the first half of this post http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/112506#Comment_112506

    And Like I said I'm not really promoting it openly, cuz I don't have a demo put together that shows what Pro really is or how it works, so I'm only encouraging those who really want it to upgrade, and suggesting everyone else wait until they can accurately decide if its for them.

  • @shian, as for the film grain tutorial... Is it for CG Pro as well?

  • @Shian

    Dude, I've been using yr invention to grade my films, I must say it works like a million dollar system. Grand software you have there.

    A short question before I upgrade.

    In AE, ColorGHear capitalises on 32 floating bit, that's because AE provides such a capability or function. Now with the plugin, I assume you can color grade on the fly? But the timeline in CS6 and FCP is not 32 bit, as I understand it (but I stand corrected).

    If this is the case, what is the advantage of color grading on the fly?

  • is there any plan to support the new Fcpx ?

  • You won't get the same color precision out of an editor that you get in a "finishing" tool. Not until editors are designed to replace such finishing suites. Adobe hasn't done this. Neither has Apple. Neither has Avid. They each offer finishing solutions with quality tailored to that level of specificity.

    Editors outside the amateur/enthusiast market don't generally "finish" a project. That's the job of a colorist...a motion graphics artist...an FX artist, etc. There's cross-training, sure, for the rare individuals that are either interested or capable of taking on both jobs but the tasks have two different skill sets and two (at least) different tool sets. I'd blow my brains out if I had to do motion graphics or any facet of what I do inside of an Avid editor.

    Developers adding "finishing" tools to editing packages have unfortunately mislead a lot of enthusiasts to believe that's all they need. They exist so that the editor can slap something together really fast for a client to visualize without leaving the editing suite. Once approved, someone else goes and does it for real, not in an editing package.

    I'm going to sound mean for this, but I think it needs to be said, but I think that anyone who can't be bothered to do specific tasks outside their editing package aren't going to generally see a benefit from the greater precision or additional tools anyway. If transcoding and cross-training and learning to work in a task-oriented way is just too much they should just keep doing what they can do in their editor and be happy they don't have to work so hard as some people.

  • @toxotis70 if and when Avid, Apple, and Sony are ready to be open and allow LUT importation, then CG Pro will automatically work in them. Complain to the manufacturer.... please. I would love to have CG Pro in FCP X

    @MikhailK yes.

    @kazuo People wanted to use CG in PP and FCP and DaVinci. I did my best to comply. I would never grade in an NLE but most people resist change, even if it's change for the better. They want to stay in their NLE's for everything. I wanted to make sure that if they did, they could have node/layer based grading available to them. BTW I show users how to change FCP to 10 bit (4 times the color depth over 8bit), PP is already 32bit, as is Davinci. [EDIT - but being able to use CG in DaVinci is transformative. It's like getting reacquainted with an old friend.]

    @BurnetRhoades while I might....(I say, "might") have put it more diplomatically. You hit the nail on the head. Using AE or DaVinci to finish in isn't just a great choice. It's a choice made by EVERY top post house I've either been to, or worked at. It's their choice, because of the results. "The right tool for the job," as my Dad used to say. You wouldn't use a wrench to nail something together, although you could, but a hammer works better.

  • @Shian, @BurnetRhoades

    Guys, you confirmed my niggling suspicions. Would love to support the new addition, but I agree with all that you said. Regardless, ColorGHear has my unqualified support as a great grading tool

  • while I might....(I say, "might") have put it more diplomatically. You hit the nail on the head. Using AE or DaVinci to finish in isn't just a great choice. It's a choice made by EVERY top post house I've either been to, or worked at. It's their choice, because of the results. "The right tool for the job," as my Dad used to say. You wouldn't use a wrench to nail something together, although you could, but a hammer works better.

    While I do not have @shian expirience, from pure software history logic it is clear that color grading (and tracking) and editors will merge. GFX and effects will just be very advanced plugins with their own interface.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev The risk you have doing that is making something too bloated to appeal to the very best specialists within each discipline who will potentially view a majority of the suite as a waste of money, resources and time. They might then seek out streamlined, focused and efficient tools to do what they do.

    Thankfully most tools support a variety of decent standards so using specialized apps for their particular strengths, more than any time in history, doesn't mean you have to be religious with your tools. The situation isn't quite as rosy over in CGI land but it has slowly improved over the last 20 years.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev I think you're right. If you look at the offering from HitFilm Ultimate, I believe that their goal is to offer an effects and NLE package that will culminate into an all-in-one solution. I've tried the demo, and while far from perfect, it's a very cool idea. To be able to grab a clip and turn it into a composite shot on the fly is a very convenient way of working.

    It's not quite ready for prime time, but I think given time it will mature into a very nice piece of software.

  • Added before and after from clip that was used in the Film Stocks tutorial to flickr set.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/76276262@N04/8493209817/in/set-72157632784156675/lightbox/

  • The risk you have doing that is making something too bloated to appeal to the very best specialists within each discipline who will potentially view a majority of the suite as a waste of money, resources and time. They might then seek out streamlined, focused and efficient tools to do what they do.

    I have some doubts that someone will ask specialists here. Professional editing and grading market is very small. GFX and 3D market is larger, hence it can fight longer :-)

    In musical software it was quite similar thing with synths being hardware (same as it was with color grading not long ago) and professionals whining how it is only right way. But now most non live tracks are done using soft synths and many pro guys work in cheap DAWs.

    @tcarretti

    You can check latest Autodesk Smoke.

  • Smoke 2013 is a very interesting idea... but about 2 or 3 iterations from being something I'd switch to. I played with the beta for awhile, and sent Autodesk my thoughts. But if the price isn't right... maybe not. Autodesk doesn't seem to understand anything but major $$$ workflows. Right now, I'd kill for a subscription/rental or short term plan for MAYA, like what Adobe has done for their full suite. Or just a previz capable version that doesn't render over like 720 or something, I only really use it anymore for pre-viz. Their 90 day plan is cool, but not renewable. but $199 for 90 days is an awesome price. I'd pay it every time I need to do pre-viz on a project.

    They are not being very smart about it, and something tells me they'll fuck up with Smoke too. Us little guys would like to have access to the tools, too.

  • But if the price isn't right... maybe not. Autodesk doesn't seem to understand anything but major $$$ workflows.

    Knowing Autodesk, they perfectly understand how to do business.

  • nope, again - $3500

    http://store.autodesk.com/store/adskus/en_US/pd/productID.260181200

    Congrats Autodesk - you'll make shitloads of money on this from deep pocketed post houses, I'm sure... but you eliminated pretty much the entire DSLR crowd.

    ENTIRE Adobe Suite = $360 per year

    Resolve Lite = free

  • I just pray that SESI stays independent and doesn't get swallowed up into the Autodesk one day.

  • but you eliminated pretty much the entire DSLR crowd.

    I said that they know how to do business not how to please "DSLR crowd" or @shian :-)
    It can piss you off, but they don't care. Good for them.

    And it is good idea to compare cheapest comparable Adobe Suite ($1600) to Autodesk product. Not subscription plans.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev tru dat. but then again.... nobody really pleases me. LOL

  • @shian I wouldn't expect any product with DNA from Discreet Logic to ever be widely used outside of a facility. You've got the initial sticker shock and then, quite often, ridiculous "maintenance" fees.

    A buddy of mine had a little boutique in Venice for several years with a Flame and an Inferno and the maintenance alone was like buying Shake nodes for a medium sized facility every single year. It was nuts. And what they were charging for really wasn't really that special.

    John Egstadt, one of Nuke's core developers when it was still an internal-only tool at DD decided to teach himself OpenGL programming while coding new interface routines for Nuke. In addition to being a skilled programmer he was also one of the companies most talented compositors and very fluent in Flame/Inferno operations. He discovered, to his own amusement, that so much of what was an integral part of Flame was nothing more than basic OpenGL routines taken straight from the text.

    He made a custom version of Nuke that he dubbed "Fluke" that he could sit any experienced Flame/Inferno operator in front of and they would have no idea they were actually using Nuke until they went to look at the node tree. Then they'd invariably ask, "how did you get Nuke into Flame?"

  • To clear something up about CG Pro, as I've been getting quite a few questions about it. Until I have videos really demonstrating it beyond the one below, I'm encouraging people who aren't sure to wait. Unless you are a PP or FCP7 user, and you want layer based grading available to you on those platforms. Or unless you are a SpeedGrade or DaVinci Resolve User, and would like ColorGHear available to you there. If you are primarily an AE user, and curious about upgrading to CG Pro then read the following statement.

    Pro is basically the same as CGT; only it is LUT based, and not Preset based, so it can be used in platforms beyond AE. (Except for things native to AE like film grain, Ghrain Killer, gradients, and the expression based Ghears I have for AE like ColorFist and the 3-way CC, there's no way to include those things inside a LUT.) Which is why, for instance to be able to add grain in CG Pro I have created the grain overlays. [FYI I haven't used a 3-way color corrector for anything other than demo purposes in years. They destroy your footage - see below video for details]

    Also, because it is LUT based it allows me to do things like the Film Stock Ghears, which as you saw from the CG Toolkit film stock tutorial that the process to create film stocks in CGT was rather complicated for just the simple stocks I had in it. These new stocks are infinitely more complex in the sense that in some cases I was re-mapping the curves per every 10IRE of exposure, per channel, manually, and then collapsing that, and adding the next 10 IRE, and so on - building a very sophisticated custom curve for each stock that reacts to different colors and intensities of light the way a film stock would.

    Right now this is the only video out there that demonstrates anything related to CG Pro. If it doesn't answer your questions about CG Pro, please wait until I can produce something that will. I'm working hard to do so, but I'm buried in work for clients, but that cloud should clear by the 2nd week of March. Pro is only out there right now for the people who know my track record, that I deliver a great product, who know they want to use it right now.

  • Any CG Pro users have or use Edius? I wonder if it's LUTher system will support layered LUTs, or if it's LUTs are single display LUT only.

  • @shian Hi mate, Have you done a grade tips for matching GH2 with GH3 yet? (Save me looking ;-) )

  • @driftwood - nope. Not yet. Been buried in development. I suppose I could create a GHear that instantly matches them :) The main problem I had with the Shootout footage, was that i couldn;t really match the GH2 with the others I had to match the others to the GH2 because of the limited DR

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