US: Companies do not like US at all

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Capital of Apple, Microsoft and IBM located in offshores increased by 37,5 billions last year.

By last three years Microsoft doubled their offshore accounts while Apple quadrupled and Google also doubled going up to 38,9 billions.

US companies have about 1950 billions of dollars on their offshore accounts with one year increase equal to about 12%.

Real patriots, my ass. You can search for post here about taxes actually paid by US companies in last yars.

zcream

Real patriots dont pay taxes!

jrd

Well, they're currently lobbying for a "tax holiday", where they're allowed to repatriate the profits to U.S. at a greatly reduced tax rate, on the claim they'll use the money for investment and to create jobs, and for other patriotic purposes.

The did the same thing under Bush. But of course didn't use the money for investments or to create jobs. They might have waved the flag, however.

rNeil

We are a country which has historically built on the notion that what we make is ours ... and are pretty damned independent about a lot of things. Currently the US has one of the highest tax-costs for any of the "industrialized" nations, including trying to tax earnings made in foreign operations ... which, let's see, about no one else does.

Given that, you better believe US companies and individuals that make money on business abroad don't want to bring that capital home. They'll have to pay a whopping tax for the pleasure of it. For some of the businesses and individuals, they'd have to pay on the foreign business earnings as earnings and then AGAIN on the same money as it's brought into the US. So ... would you be that stupid?

jrd

@rNeil

Many profitable U.S. corporations pay no corporate tax at all, and profit earned here has a way ending up abroad, thanks to post-office boxes in the Cayman Islands and elsewhere. The effective tax rates are far lower than the marginal ones.

As for a history of believing that what we makes is "ours" -- have a look at the post-war period, the time of the greatest American prosperity. Tax rates were far higher than they are today and corporations paid a far higher percentage of the total. And, strangely enough, nobody accused Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon of being either Nazis or Communists. And I guess there's no sense in pointing out that today's billionaires are dining out on the infrastructure those taxes paid for.

I guess you could say that corporations and individuals who don't exploit tax loopholes are "stupid", but since those same corporations and individuals ensure such loopholes exist, by buying politicians, isn't it disingenuous to say that they're simply observing good business practices?

Mitt Romney, you may recall, remarked that a presidential candidate who didn't exploit loopholes was too stupid to be president, but never bothered to explain why it was appropriate for a guy earning passive millions to pay less than 15%, while a single teacher could easily get to 28% on wage income, or how it was he came to own a tax-sheltered $100 million IRA, when the contribution limit is a few thousand a year.

rNeil

Problem with quoting those post WWII tax rates is there were so many different "loopholes", exemptions and what-if's in them that the actual tax payments per dollar of income-rate wasn't near what so many insist it was. One of the main things the tax changes did in say the Reagan years (with a Demo controlled congress & senate) was drop the "rates" but eliminate a TON of the exceptions. Rates dropped but actual taxes paid went up over the next couple years ... dramatically. In the intervening years we've added a ton of exemptions/exceptions/what-if's back into the tax code, which is why the whole things damn near unworkable.

So ... after your comments, I suppose you look at your tax figures, deduce you should be paying more, and chuck a bunch of extra in, right? I don't know anyone who does that, but I do know a lot who are SURE that a ton of others aren't paying their fare share.

I'm one of those who would rather just set a damn simple rate and pay on anything. No lawyers, no accountants, no headaches ... income, pay X. Although I realize that most of my acquaintances who get paid a salary don't have a clue realistically what it's like to run a business. Such as ... profits are EVIL! Right. "Profits" are what I take home to pay the mortgage, gas, & living expenses. Their salary is a "right" but my profits are "evil".

Not a lot of econ knowledge there ...

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@rNeil

It is good to understand that energy prices and EROI are tightly connected to tax rates that people and business can survive. We are present now on the biggest turn of human history that will wipe out most of usual structures existing on tax money.

jrd

I suppose you look at your tax figures, deduce you should be paying more, and chuck a bunch of extra in, right? I don't know anyone who does that, but I do know a lot who are SURE that a ton of others aren't paying their fare share.

Like most people, I'd be prepared to pay more, if it went to something I approve of -- not, for example, military spending, price supports for agribusiness or subsidies to the oil and gas energy companies, etc. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it.

Also bear in mind that if you factor in the cost of health insurance and expenses health insurance doesn't cover (pre-Obamacare, for the sake of the argument), the U.S. doesn't have low taxes for middle-income people compared to places like France or Germany. We just get much less for our contributions.

As for the very rich, they pay less than they ever have before, despite record profits. And the excess profits go back into the political system, to ensure they continue to pay less than ever before. If you consider that "just", I'm not sure we can have a useful discussion.

For myself, don't think anyone consider profits are evil -- I'm also a [very!] small businessman, not an employee. It's just that some people get inordinate benefits from markets, or have arranged markets to get inordinate benefits, but don't seem willing to either pay their way (despite all the feigned concern about deficits) or provide for future generations in the way prior generations provided for them.

TheNewDeal

How is a USA congressman going to get secret PAC donations if there is a flat tax? :)

Obviously, we need a good old total revolution. We need to go all Ukraine on Washington, or we will be here in five years having this same discussion. I'm pretty busy. Maybe we can cheap pay some illegal aliens to do it for us, while we keep playing with compressions.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Obviously, we need a good old total revolution. We need to go all Ukraine on Washington.

You mean that you prepare to give Alaska back? :-)

rNeil

@Vitaliy_Kiselev

Hee hee ... :)

brianl

It's funny how experience owning a business in the US, any business whatsoever, even porno or scams or cheating employees, and you're conferred with superhuman power and capable of leaping tall buildings with a single bound and possess superhuman intellect.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

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