@spacewig the FR is independent of the color. For example you can take an AKG mic and a Sennheiser mic that are ruler flat, plus or minus 1db, 20-20, and they sound totally different. Obviously if there is a big bump, you are going to hear that, but the impression of neutrality for me is the transparency and lack of added color. @Mark_the_Harp there are certain edits that you will only hear on speakers, esp sin/cos as opposed to linear.

@mrbill Top advice. I'm currently mixing and editing and doing exactly that - cans for editing, so you can hear everything without distraction, speakers for mixing so you've a proper sense of reverb, imaging and eq.

I bought the item on the seller's guarantee that it would provide phantom power. It's an external sound card which can also mix sources and possibly be used as a simple field mixer.

I am using it for an application which requires a phantom-powered, noise-cancelling, voice-recognition-standard headset and mic. But they seem to be selling it with computers and mixing in mind and it comes with software.

http://www.behringer.com/assets/302USB_WebBrochure.pdf‎

http://orionhellraiser.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-amazing-behringer-xenyx-302usb.html http://www.gearslutz.com/board/reviews/719795-behringer-xenyx-302-usb-mixer.html

I just ordered a Behringer XENYX 302USB Mini-Mixer. I'll tell you how it goes.

Ones should trust their ears more than graphs..

Well, here's some more for you, then. And this will be my last regarding this issue:

@spacewig

Huh. I think we all figured out long enough that you recommend and like K702. I do not agree with you about this HP, despite I have them.

Let's look at measurements:

HD600

Fidelio X1

K702 ("most neutral" as you said)

After this you can just check spectral decay

That also shows problems compared to two other phones.

I also compared a lot of cans before buying these ones which is why I feel very comfortable recommending them for the specific requirements of the opening poster, i.e. post-production audio. All talk about mixing music in this thread seems to disrespect its original intent.

I have other opinion as we can go as far as guys endlessly talking about "classic", "jazz" and other headphones. Headphones is just device to play sound with their own specifics

The graph of the headphone represents the headphone, but it does not represent neutral, owing to free field diffusion. For example, if you sat between two speakers it would sound really weird. The FR of the cans is tailored to simulate a listening environment at a reasonable distance, sometimes with a loudness curve as well.

Back to $200 headphone for monitoring:

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRMA900-Headphones-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B007DCCK60/

It seems like they had been discontinued by Sony. Got one today, they are very comfortable and quite neutral, not quite but good.

X1 is still more detailed and after simple EQ bass can be made very flat for mixing

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-X1-28-Over-Ear-Headphones/dp/B00B3QD94O/

Also, $0 tip for beginners - go to medic first and check ears. I am serious as you could have problems and it will affect every mix you'll make, be it HP or speakers.

I should have mentioned if you use mass loaded vinyl it is quite ugly. I bought heavy weight canvas which helps quite a bit with room reflections and hung this over the MLV. With the addition of some bass traps, baffling you can get a decent sounding room for around $1000. Of course not on par with a $100/hr studio but a big improvement over a bare room. My mixes have improved considerably since doing this with no other equipment changes.

Yes, I agree you can acclimate your ears to mix with headphones but my ears fatigue a lot faster with cans on and what I think sounded good might not sound that great the following day. Also I think spatial rendering is compromised when trying to mix with only headphones.

People do use headphones for mixdown, and people also mixdown tracks that sound great on headphones but off on speakers. But hey, it is the mastering engineers choice. Ideally, you preview the final product on YouTube squished mp3s, car stereos (alas, many people listen in the car) nearfield monitors and regular speakers like someone might have in their house.

You can of course skip these steps. If there was one step I definitely would not skip it is just popping it in the living room stereo and listening on speakers.

Most audio engineers agree that it is not possible to mix on cans, but, hey, it's your music and everyone has different listening skills.

Vitaly, would like to know what headphones you consider neutral under $200

Thing I do not like is "suggest me ... under $xxx" forum things. :-)

Most cheap open headphones are not very neutral, mostly lacking bass, some have peaks in HF. Most are also less detailed and comfortable than your K702. Find measurements, use EQ.

From that I know from cheap phones Takstars are quite good (TS-671 is also most comfortable phones, Pro 80 being most neutral from them), Panasonic RP-HTF890 (same as former Technics HTF880) is also good for monitoring.

AKG K240 also has good feedback (Superlux make cheap HP that seems like copies, but are different and also with good feedback).

If you ask me, HD600 and Fidelio X1 cost more but are better. Add even more and it is Stax and planars territory.

HD600 is usually considered as one of most neutral.

A mix that sounds good on expensive 3 way towers might not sound good on computer satellites with a sub woofer. Most of the engineers I have worked with had at least 2 sets of speakers to test a mix and of course a quick run out to listen to the car stereo was common as well.

All this thing has science and logic behind it. If you have good neutral speakers with small distortions you can emulate almost any non ideal ones. Most engineers just use things they are accustomed to, hence idea to checks. As for auto stereo it has really almost no logic as auto audio difference between different autos and installation options dramatically.

Headphones are excellent to focus on one aspect of the sound but they don't provide a good platform for developing space and positioning a sound. You can EQ, pan, add verb etc to move a sound around in a mix. This is why near field monitors that are flat in a treated room are important. You want an accurate rendering of the material so that the changes you make are neutral and not colored by your environment.

OK, here we go in circles. Can you pan in good headphones? Definitely. EQ? Also, in fact most speakers, even best ones, are inferior in 10-4KHz region to headphones. I do not know that you mean under "move sound around". We have number of HRTF based software that moves image forward for ones who like it as on monitors (check above for links). If you go to pro literature you'll see that biggest argument is your brains as they need more db (about 8db) for same perceived loudness in headphones, and it makes it hard for pros to mix for prolonged time if they use reference level.

About room treating, in fact it is biggest speakers minus. But it is not always required, it all depends on speakers distance to your ears compared to walls and reflection strength. Proper room treatment is very expensive and requires MANY methods tailored to different frequencies. I can only suggest to read books about it. Most room treatments will never cure standing waves in bass and low regions (in usual rooms, not pro studios).