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3D 3K 12-bit RAW camera project
  • zcreamzcream

    Why?


    I have decided to shoot my next film in 3D. For this purpose, I can use a Panasonic Z10000 camera with 1080p @ 25P and 24P. The 4:2:2 lossless signal can be recorded with a BM Ultrastudio to dual Prores streams. However, 3D presents some challenges in post production. Upsizing 3D is a no-no as this may causes various violations in the 2 streams. Also, any jerkiness in 3D makes the viewer feel dizzy - a sensation similar to sea-sickness. The alternative is to shoot in a higher res and use a zoom and pan-scan in post to simulate movement. The HIT can be adjusted in post to add to the simulation of movement. http://realvision.ae/blog/2011/04/stereoscopic-3d-cinematography-zooming-in-3d/

    How?


    In another project, an inexpensive USB3 Flea3 FL3-U3-88S2C-C camera by Point Grey was used as a 4K RAW camera project.

    A statement was made that using binning, 2K @ 60 fps RAW footage displayed minimal rolling shutter. This post indicated that 200 MBps is the limit that the Flea3 cameras have for bandwidth.

    This camera can output 12-bit RAW at 24,25 fps at slightly above 3K. This allows for a resolution budget to allow for stabilizing and post zoom and pan,scan actions. Thus, I can keep my camera steady on a tripod while filming and worry about dolly moves in post. This allows for 3K in 12-bit RAW or a low rolling shutter 2K at 12-bit RAW.

    More Details?


    The lenses used in actual production will be fixed focal length as POV is hard to fix. I will attempt to connect an embedded i7 PC with 3x SSDs - 1 for the OS and 2 for recording each stream using uncompressed RAW. The gfx card does not make a difference - the key point is the CPU. A single recorder is preferred.

    Some software options - COTS - Streampix with optional Cineform RAW - 1000/- + optional CF RAW license Norpix recorder Smallpix 2 with 2x SSDs - 2500/- + SSDs

    My first attempt is to replicate what Soeren did in his thread and just use the supplied FlyCapture app.

    Cesar Rubio has attempted this before.

    However, this last approach was done lugging around a bulky PC. I wanted mine to be battery operated and portable.

    The USB3 cameras can be used for anaglyph preview using Stereoscopic Player. The embedded PC can be controlled remotely using VNC or Remote Desktop.

    Options for data rate with uncompressed RAW -

    • 2048 x 1080 x 12bit, 60fps (199MB/s, binning, full sensor)
    • 3120 x 1754 x 12bit, 25fps (205MB/s, windowed)
    • 3200 x 1800 x 12bit, 24fps (207MB/s, windowed)
    • 3584 x 2016 x 8bit, 25fps (181MB/s, windowed)
    • 3728 x 2096 x 8bit, 24fps (188MB/s, windowed but only very slightly of course)

    http://ns2.scarletuser.com/showthread.php?2043-Little-raw-cam-side-project&p=43776&viewfull=1#post43776

    The camera has good detail and can look cinematic with the right grading. http://ns2.scarletuser.com/showthread.php?2043-Little-raw-cam-side-project&p=40070&viewfull=1#post40070

  • 133 Replies sorted by
  • faboutchfaboutch

    Ok thank you

  • zcreamzcream

    Look at the dates. Only some files are modified. Also, it may be as simple as looking at the dng code, and searching for a place where I check the string "Flea3" Remove that check that the code will run for all cameras.

  • faboutchfaboutch

    Ok thanks. I downloaded your project file. Which files should I modify? I'm not a programmer, but I could ask somebody to do it. Thanks

  • zcreamzcream

    I had to modify the dng from flea3 as its got endian or format issues. Since yours is a different camera, my code is not picking it up.

    In the same public folder, you will find Flea 3 project zip file. That has the code. You can download it and try to modify it if you wish.

  • faboutchfaboutch

    Here are better examples : one is screenshot from jpg in flycap, other is screenshot from dng in flycap Thanks

    Capture d’écran 2021-02-09 à 19.37.37.png
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    Capture d’écran 2021-02-09 à 19.37.42.png
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  • faboutchfaboutch

    Hello zcream, I tried your version of Flycap with my Pointgrey Blackfly usb3. It is recognized. Jpg recording is fine, but DNG is not working well. Here is a screenshot of a dng I get. Is there anything I can do to make it work? Or does your software only works with Flea3, not Blackfly? Thanks

    Capture d’écran 2021-02-09 à 19.24.57.png
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  • dustobubdustobub

    I just tried with the included SDK installer and all is working now. Thanks!

    I've now got a crash when saving DNG's using the sync FlyCap, but that is probably something to do with my system (USB/memory related). I'll figure it out.

    Thanks, Dustin

  • zcreamzcream

    I haven't played with it in 3 years. But the binary worked then. Maybe compile the source again

  • dustobubdustobub

    No, I was just trying to run the FlyCap binary directly (potentially using some of my current installed SDK dlls).

    Do I need to compile your modified SDK, or can I just install FlyCapture2.5.3.5_x64.exe that you included in the zip?

    Thanks, Dustin

  • zcreamzcream

    Are you using the modified SDK I uploaded? Are you using flycap with the SDK included with it?

  • dustobubdustobub

    Hey zcream,

    Thanks for putting together these modifications. I was hoping to get it working with the Flea3 FL3-U3-120S3C-C but I seem to be having some troubles. I get "Error querying video mode and frame rate Invalid image settings parameter" when trying to connect to my camera. Is it possible that this is due to me having a newer SDK installed on my computer? I don't have any issues when using the PTGrey provided FlyCap application.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks, Dustin

  • zcreamzcream

    Only with flea3s sorry

  • robertGLrobertGL

    Hi Does your software only work with Flea3s? I just got impulse-bought a prosilica gt1910 off fleabay but is gigE. The only free option that I can find seems to be firecapture or genicapture but I haven't even installed them yet.

  • zcreamzcream

    I have just posted my rig for sale - http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/16350/working-raw-3k-3d-rig-dual-usb3-flea3-fl3-u3-88s2c-c-with-software

    Not used for 2 years. Hopefully someone else can benefit from it :-)

  • _gl_gl

    @IronFilm indeed, I have two here as well as a sync generator, but haven't shot footage yet. I'm just working on software that turns a Windows tablet/laptop/PC and some capture device (eg. USB for portable use) into a full featured camera monitor with touchscreen controls.

    There's a 3D version that can preview two cams, eg. from a 3D twin rig. Then there's the BMMCC-specific version that can control all the camera parameters (both cams in sync in the 3D version), all from the touch screen. I'm just finalising the remote control code and will have test footage soon.

  • IronFilmIronFilm

    @_gl should be even easier to sync two BMMCC together than two BMPCC thanks to the ports on the side of the BMMCC

  • zcreamzcream

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9906333/Flea3%20Project.zip

    I have uploaded the entire project in case someone wants to play with it. Sorry about the delay.

  • _gl_gl

    As the BMPCC is just 500USD right now (limited availability), I'm going to try syncing them for 3D. Only 1080p but still 12bit RAW (or 10bit Prores): http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/10902/bmd-pocket-cinema-camera-stereoscopic-collaboration

  • zcreamzcream

    This is the original version with a bugfix. It can only record from a single camera, and uses a polling method to record and display at the same time. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9906333/FlyCap2-poll.exe

    Both versions still display an underexposed image. I suspect this is due to a gamma mismatch. Default QT gamma is 2.2 while Flycap2 converts to RGB using gamma of 1.

  • zcreamzcream

    For 3d, I decided to build a separate version without the polling used by PGR. This version is very fast and ensures that there are no dropped frames. On the flipside, it cannot display while recording. Use this, if you want to record from multiple cameras, or for high frame rates, where the other version gives dropped frames. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9906333/FlyCap2-sync.exe

  • zcreamzcream

    Updated version has RAW and DNG versions. Just a heads up about Black Level. Flycap2 does not save settings unless you save it to a memory channel. So each time you start the program, its starting with a default 9% Black Level. This is faithfully reproduced in the DNG Header. Inside your RAW, you also have a file with 9% Black Level, but you are not recognizing this. This is why your RAW file is showing as being "lighter" than the DNG. The program works fine.

  • jsfotografiejsfotografie

    just tested it with my flea 3 PERFECT :-) only thing with 120fps is that i need to use buffered because streaming will drop some frames its unbelievable how hardware intense this is! but 720p120 fps in dng 12 bit out if the cam is prtty amazing. i have to say zcream know his stuff :-) also the 000000 padding is nice!

    if only you can try to implement the GigE version for my Blackfly with e2v sensor ;-)

  • zcreamzcream

    @jsfotografie Try the new version - just uploaded it. The display windows keeps track of lost frames. If it does not show any there is none. If you want to test it, keep a free timer app for your smartphone and record it. Make sure it has ms precision i.e. 1 ms count.

  • jsfotografiejsfotografie

    your a genius zcream! with my flea 3 it works :-) but as you said only with streaming and when i have the preview window to big i lose some frames....hmmmm any idea how i can confirm that my miniraw1 recorded 120fps? also the dng files open beautifull in davinci resolve :-)

    one request would be to change the frame padding from 0000 to perhabs 00000 becaue with 120 fps i reach to fast 9999 and when it then goes to 10000 some softeare has problems :-)

    thx alot!!!

  • gangstak2gangstak2

    Newest version works perfectly for me. Video feed seems smoother.

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