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Vimeo On Demand
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  • WhiteRabbitWhiteRabbit

    @matt_gh2, when I was looking into this topic of discussion a few months ago, I read about Distribber, somewhat of a conduit service between content creators/providers and new digital distribution companies that have evolved. They refer to the similar sum of $1500 for HD content on iTunes, however, nothing mentioned about time frames to go live. I don't know if a 'Distribber' type group is a good option to pursue for indie film makers, nor do I know who is behind the company. I am just researching, I am not part of the game. http://www.distribber.com/faqs

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @WhiteRabbit Yeah, I looked at those other services too and kinda got the feeling they were a bit..."klutzy"-meaning the player/customer interface and experience seemed problematic or the fact that they didnt have a known name might make some customers less likely to buy from them. So that's why the Vimeo offering is nice: Vimeo is trusted name for consumer, revenue split 90%, virtually no upfront cost other than $200 pro membership, and they're cracking the nut of getting creators content onto customers TVs in addition to computers and other devices. (I would guess iTunes is also a great choice for indie filmmaker looking for distribution, but unable to secure a standard theatrical and/or broadcast/cable and/or DVD distribution deal).

    I'm new to all this too, but that's the impression I get. Maybe some of the more experienced folks on this site might have opinions based on their distribution/sales experience?

    EDIT: Actually I only briefly looked at Distribber but my comments were really on companies like Distrify and Dynamo. I guess Distribber tries to take your content to different distribution partners (iTunes, Cable companies, Amazon) so I guess their real value to indie filmmakers is the $1500 to get on iTunes and the "hope" that they'll somehow get that indie filmmaker's movie on cable TV. I guess time will tell how well they do that last part.

  • WhiteRabbitWhiteRabbit

    @matt_gh2, yes, the Vimeo option may be a good start, if it is simple enough. Perhaps the masses may not know of Vimeo, whereas YouTube is a known entity world wide. And then there is the next stage, of people familiar with watching free content, to people paying for content, when they have been familiar with watching for free here on Vimeo or YouTube. Granted, this will likely be a feature length or series length type program, compared to often very short duration content viewed for free. That said, the Vimeo option may be enough, and simple enough, for some people to possibly get content out there, in a form that they may generate some minor cash flow. Given that some creators can make interesting content without having to expend movie like budgets, Vimeo on demand seems like an interesting option to have content potentially distributed and perhaps some financial reward may follow. I agree with early comments that people should not expect this to be a cash cow for a content creator/provider, it may just be a simple way to make a product commercial. The rest of the process is an up hill battle. Some people may be able to promote and direct groups to their Vimeo on demand content. It would not be easy, yet Vimeo on demand may be simplifying part of the distribution process that previously either had people locked into a distribution deal with no control, no control and no cash flow return whatsoever, or those that just could not get their product distributed, for various reasons. This is interesting, we shall wait and see how this evolves. Thanks for your reply.

  • RamboRambo

    I'm not sure my situation will apply to most other P-V users who i assume are mostly Indie Film Makers as my Business is Ocean Sports Events and Ocean Sports Promotion, but this is how it works for me. The video i produce promotes a Sports Event and a locality (usually a beach resort, Island or Sports Tourist location somewhere in the world), it also promotes the Events Sponsors who ultimately fund the video. The Vimeo Stats are very valuable to me as they provide proof of exposure thus justifying the funding.

    The value of my Business is not that I'm the one that shoots the event ( although i do have a reputation for capturing some of the best visuals of this type and I'm well known from my competitive days) but the value is that i have built up a very large targeted distribution network that embeds my videos on their webpages which are available 24/7, unlike content on local TV, broadcast or cable which are generally localized and programed at particular times. Here is an example below:>

    I release a new video on Vimeo, the Network of Associates are informed, the video appears usually accompanied by a written Event report, followers (viewers) of those websites are usually subscribed and play the video, they also may share it themselves on FB etc, so word gets around. There is huge interest in the video within the first week, by week 2 it starts to fade, but the content is still available 24/7 thereafter.

    So in this case, the end user, say a viewer in USA, gets to watch the Event video (say in Tahiti) free. Think very similar to Surfing Contests but on a much, much small smaller scale. Would they pay to view it? According to the survey i conducted, No, but this could change once internet Video On Demand becomes common for Sports Events (if that ever happens)

    Would VOD help me produce a better product? Hell yeah if there was more money available, i could afford extra cameraman, commentators and possibly LIVE coverage. I have a MultCam LIVE intercepted ( preview, mix, commentary with 30sec delay) system ready to go Hardware/Software wise, but little funding to pay people to man it.

    With Vimeo releasing this VOD service, it gives me hope that there might be an addition source of funding this time by end user pays, however, if it goes the same way the Fight Game has (Pro Boxing Pay per View Events are pirated and rebroadcast on JustinTv, Ustream etc and suckers are charged to watch a Pirated Event. This sort of thing doesn't help but will probably be stamped out in future by better technology. (BTW, before someone jumps on me, yes i have been known to use unauthorized mainstream music in my videos, but lately have been paying)

    I'm watching this VOD thing very closely, not ready to jump in just yet.

    R

  • WhiteRabbitWhiteRabbit

    @Rambo, thank you for explaining your special interest content model and experience. Your live stream system sounds great. With the Vimeo model unfolding, perhaps you can work out a business model between you and your sponsors where you can perhaps have exclusive content released as PPV, or live event coverage may be PPV. It depends on the demographic/number of interested followers willing to pay. Vimeo option may allow you to make the cost of PPV very reasonable, and with 90/10 split direct payment and no distributor controlling you, not a bad option to explore in your case. All the best with that.

  • apefosapefos

    My Vimeo Stats report:

    I have 54 uploaded videos on Vimeo: lenses tests, tutorials, 3D, anamorphic project and so on... Some of them became popular: Neatvideo tutorial, Super8 telecine tutorial, Apefoscope project.

    October 13 2012 I went Vimeo Plus to get more HD uploads for the anamorphic project.

    It was 5 months since then, and I got (in all my videos) 25400 plays, 357000 loads, 278000 loads from embeds, 154 likes, 139 comments.

    I believe I have some videos with useful information and teaching, also the anamorphic project, but In this period (5 months) I enabled TIP JAR in all my videos and I got no Tip Jar, just nothing!

  • MarcioKMarcioK

    "I'll admit, I'm excited to see stuff like this happening. I'd be a lot more excited if I had, or knew anyone that had, a VIMEO capable smart-TV or BD player."

    I have a Samsung D5500 LCD Smart TV that is almost 2 years old, and it has a Vimeo player since the launch. In fact, it is miles better than the YouTube player - all videos plays with stunning image quality flawlessly (but in 720p, I guess). I think that all the Samsung's Smart TVs have Vimeo players.

  • stoneystoney

    Apple TV is nice for watching Vimeo contents.

    ATV2 supports 720p. ATV3 supports 1080p, and it's cheaper. Vimeo doesn't support 1080p, but who knows.

  • stoneystoney

    As a consumer, I'd hit VOD site and simply look for this week's top hits or this month's. Prolly I'd subscribe to a list of well known studios that release great contents often. More likely indie film makers would release their contents through reputable studios to get more exposure. That's how the mobile game app biz has become. 10/90 is ideal. 10/30/60 or 10/40/50 more likely. Lots of people make purchasing decisions through popular review sites that favor big corps.

    I see VOD as fueling endless competition.

  • RamboRambo

    My initial PPV model was subscription based on access to 10 videos for $10 over time due to it being easier to extract a small upfront $ payment once rather than 10 individual small transactions of $1. Magazine subscriptions have worked successfully this way for years and Vimeos own Plus and Pro service is 12mth subscription based.

    But things may be changing, people are quite happy making small purchases .99c etc for apps on iTunes,

    Stonebat, your right, viewers are going to be looking for and paying for the top/popular videos just like they do now with Vimeo Staff recommended watches and videos with high "Like" tags. But then there will be the special interest groups like mine or specialist Motorsport events etc that have relatively small followings but enthusiastic fans. Getting noticed is going to mean lots of marketing and promotion as well as a good product.

    Apefos, just having a tip button available doesn't mean people will click it, you have to ASK or suggest people click it if they felt they got some value from it. The comments section is a good place for this, reply to a positive comment thanking them for watching and suggest they tip you if they received value from it, you would be surprised the difference it makes.

  • apefosapefos

    @Rambo Thanks! This idea is good.

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @apefos Maybe do what Rambo says but also add a "thank you - please tip" type note in the video itself at the end.

  • apefosapefos

    @matt_gh2 this is good also! thanks.

  • WhiteRabbitWhiteRabbit

    This is good information. I agree with @Rambo in saying there are niche type productions out there, yet have enthusiastic followers. I can see some paid content models working, especially with special events and special interest groups. Still a lot of work to attract attention and direct people to your content, but that is the nature of this evolving space. Another I idea that I thought may have some interest or merit, yet may also create other complications is if Vimeo had an account where you could deposit credit, or be rewarded credit where you can spend the credit within the Vimeo site, such as spend it toward Vimeo on demand content, or toward your subscription fees, etc. Again, this is complicated and may entangle Vimeo into a whole bunch of other issues regarding administration, taxation and perhaps some hacked accounts problems. Being rewarded some form of credit may also mean that those funds come from some form of advertising, and Vimeo's model appears somewhat different to, say, the YouTube model. Just some ideas I was thinking about, mostly problematic in many cases.

  • apefosapefos

    Two things I would like to talk about:

    First: the lowest price to watch a video is 99 cents (usd). So imagine a short movie about 15 minutes selling for 99 cents. The creator needs to specify a time period for the viewer watch it after purchase. What would be the best time period? options are 24h, 48h, 72h, 1 week, 1 month, 6 months, 1 year.

    Second: would be a good option to allow the viewer to download the video after purchase or allow just the streaming?

  • Raysito22Raysito22

    @apefos wondered just the same thing this morning. Indeed I'm shooting a +15 mins short movie (on September) and thought "vimeo on demand for 99 cents might get me a bar of chocolate or something". Will wait for others to do first. If giving option of download, 2$...and it's still a good price to maybe even pay a dinner for the crew and cast :)

  • apefosapefos

    I started to think about it just after I did the question.

    I think short viewing period like 24h is just for videos with VERY HIGH VALUE CONTENT, PRISTINE QUALITY when you are sure everybody will want to pay for it and even pay again for it. But then another question shows up: 24h low price (99 cents) or 1 week high price (10 usd)? It is a good question also because imagine a teenager school or even a business company or even a group of friends: they can buy one time to see everybody together, so maybe a very low price can hurt your revenue.

    Short viewing period is not so good for people with slow internet connections, because sometime the connection fails loading the streaming, and need to try later. Also people will want to see again or to show to friends and family. So 72h will be reasonable to cover a weekend from Friday night to Monday morning.

    1 week viewing period will make the viewer think you are more generous because buyer can show the video to family in the weekend and to school or work fellows in the business days. 1 week period will always have a weekend in between, so when your video drops into the viewer screen when he is browsing, he can buy it right now because he knows there will be a weekend inside the 1 week viewing period. It would avoid the need for the viewer come back to buy and probably forget. The drawback is one buyer will show the video to many people, but it will be better to make the viewer feel you are generous in the viewing period and relax to see within a week.

    Also the download option is very important to decide. It can hurt your revenue dramatically. One person buy and shows it to everybody in family, school and business work, and also pirate it, zip and upload it, torrent it. So I think the download option needs to be at least 10x the streaming price or even more (10usd or 20 usd or 50usd)... or something like that, or not allowed. Or just relax and go for the generous route, allow it for a low price...

    It would be better for the creators to consider the On Demand feature like "a bar of chocolate or something" or a "dinner" instead of making money for a living... low prices and reasonable viewing periods, but be careful about allowing download...

    Just thoughts...

    I also got another question: will the viewing password allows simultaneous login? It would be good idea to allow just one login at a time per pass.

  • WhiteRabbitWhiteRabbit

    @apefos, I can now download content from Vimeo or YT using, say, RealPlayer, it brings up an option to download the file when hovering over the Vimeo player screen. I am not sure if PPV Vimeo files prevent this feature? If not, then I could download the content and watch it later.

    I mostly do this now because my broadband is inconsistent, and playing a Vimeo file does not always buffer and stream without pause amidst playback. Also, if I want to play and view a file again, this method is more efficient, so that I don't download the same file over and over again.

    This Vimeo on demand topic is active on other forums. It has been suggested that Vimeo, having a high bit rate quality encode suffers buffering issues at times, and this results in people closing the window. The stats for play to the end are supposed to be rather poor. If PPV, then perhaps the motivation will be different, however, if the buffering is problematic, paying customers may stop using the service. It was said that Vimeo do not own their servers and have huge costs, hence, this is perhaps part of the reason we see this paradigm shift. Couple that with not having the same method of cash flow generation, such as YT and advertising, perhaps the changing Vimeo model is trying to adapt to seek longevity, and the VOD landscape is changing and evolving rather quickly. It was also said that the 90/10 split is closer to 84%, factoring the intial transaction cost. Still a great deal, if you can turn a profit and recover the $200 Pro subscription fee. I still think it is a good proposal for smaller niche productions that want a commercial presence, but attracting paying customers may be difficult. I try to be positive.

    I don't know the answer to your question, nor do I know what options Vimeo may propose to allow you to setup regarding downloading parameters and time frames allowed for customers accessing the paid content.

  • apefosapefos

    I fully agree about streaming problems. I always suffer with this problem in YouTube and Vimeo. It is so annoying and makes me stop watching most times and go for the download route. It is too bad when you are emotionally involved with the movie and suddenly it stops playing... (e.g. scratched rented dvd, low speed internet...) Most times (mainly for music videos) I use keepvid.com which allows download youtube videos and avoid stuttering. Music playback stuttering is so annoying, and also it is a Film playback stuttering!

    So after reconsidering this issue, if the creator are serious and respectful for his/her audience (and want to keep it), to allow the download is the way to go... Or think about which videos will be allowed, evaluate... because in some content people can live with some stuttering or wait the stream to load, in some content people cannot. There are lots of things to consider in this kind of decision... needs more time to think, rethink... build the marketing strategies...

    The 90/10 split will also have a paypal fee when you get paid, but this is not a problem at all, still great deal.

    Attracting paying customers is a matter of desire! Think about you are a poor ugly guy dreaming about a gorgeous and popular girl. Well, it is not impossible... but... how will you awaken her desire? It is up to you!

    I did some questions related to the password and download in the vimeo blog, waiting the staff to answer.

  • apefosapefos

    I think it is good idea to read all the comments and staff answers in vimeo blog, my question is there also.

    https://vimeo.com/blog/post:559

    this thing is making these three words get it's real meaning for me, and for many people... WORLD WIDE WEB

  • apefosapefos

    From the vimeo blog, my questions and staff answers:

    Congratulations for this revolutionary feature. I have some questions, please: I would like to know if the password can be used by many people at a time? because one people can buy the video and share the password with friends... It would be good to block the viewing password to not allow simultaneous login. Will you do this? Realplayer (and others) allows to download the file while hovering the player screen, will you block this? There are websites like keepvid.com wich allows to download videos which does not have the download option. Will you block this?

    Hi there, By password do you mean logging into the Vimeo account? We don't block multiple sessions on Vimeo, so a user can be logged in more than once. As for downloading, we take precautions to prevent unauthorized downloading, including blocking services that rip videos, but like all other sites, we can't really prevent every attempt. Our suggestion as always is if you're genuinely concerned about content being stolen, you shouldn't put it online in any form. We also comply with DMCA notices if you happen to find your work duplicated on Vimeo.

    Well, please clarify me: to buy the on demand videos the customer needs to be a vimeo member or any people outside vimeo community can buy? When a customer buy a video he/she get a password for that video or it is just added to his/her watch later and removed after viewing period?

    Currently users have to be a Vimeo member. When they purchase access, it's added to their Watch Later queue and are given access to your VOD page.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Currently users have to be a Vimeo member. When they purchase access, it's added to their Watch Later queue and are given access to your VOD page.

    This is very big show stopper.

  • apefosapefos

    Apefos: I got a reply in another forum saying if only vimeo members can buy content it could restrict audience. Don't you think if only members can buy on demand videos it will restrict the audience? Or would it increase the number of vimeo members without any upload? Wouldn't be better to allow every people in internet to buy and get a password? (in this case password cannot allow simultaneous access)

    Vimeo Staff: For now we're keeping this to Vimeo members only to encourage things like logged-in comments, "liking" the videos, and sharing with other Vimeo members. As of now there isn't a plan to open it up to logged-out viewers.

  • stoneystoney

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    DRM... of course. What else did you expect?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Vimeo Staff: For now we're keeping this to Vimeo members only to encourage things like logged-in comments, "liking" the videos, and sharing with other Vimeo members. As of now there isn't a plan to open it up to logged-out viewers.

    Vimeo always had their way. Here they are just idiots.

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