Personal View site logo
Make sure to join PV on Telegram or Facebook! Perfect to keep up with community on your smartphone.
Please, support PV!
It allows to keep PV going, with more focus towards AI, but keeping be one of the few truly independent places.
How to Create/Sell/Gift a Secure Downloadable File of Your Film?
  • Okay. So we've completed a feature length documentary and we want to be able to share it with our donors via a secure downloadable file sent through dropbox or whomever... How can we do this and be sure the video file is not easily uploaded to Youtube or Vimeo? Or, Can we do this?

    A) In other words, how can you share a secure downloadable video file for someone that will not be pirated and spread across the web? (I know it's near impossible to prevent a video from being pirated on the web, but isn't there a way to share it via a secure downloadable file?)

    Also, if A) is possible... than can you create a file that will expire on a certain day as well? For instance, for people to use at screenings...

    Thanks ahead for any response to this!

  • 22 Replies sorted by
  • :-)

    I fail to catch how secure delivery channel is connected to preventing spreading of film.

    And I fail to understand why someone will spread it at all. Even if they do you can always contact Vimeo or Youtube abd take it down.

  • I agree we could contact Vimeo & Youtube to take care of it, but I want to be able to take the precaution if possible... We are a team of two people and I'd hate to have to scrape through those channels to prevent the film from being pirated.

    There's no doubt someone is going to want to spread it. I say this because we'll be dealing with a lot of viewers who believe the information we've investigated should be free, etc., but it would suck to have not taken any precaution beforehand if one is available.

    I would think there's at least a way to share a downloadable file that expires after a few days... are you aware of any service that can provide this option?

  • @jbpribanic

    I don't know. You need to check some DRM solutions existing for video. It is not about sharing by secure channels, it is by having file specially encrypted and played on special player.

  • There's no doubt someone is going to want to spread it. I say this because we'll be dealing with a lot of viewers who believe the information we've investigated should be free, etc., but it would suck to have not taken any precaution beforehand if one is available.

    If you are so sure that one will want to publish your video, you should not share it. Invite to a screening, if you have to. There is no easy way to protect it. Using some proprietary streaming solution like Microsoft Silverlight could raise the bare a very little against unwanted usage without making it to awkward for the legitimate viewer to watch it.

  • Why not a password protected link with no download option (say, on Vimeo)

  • Why not a password protected link with no download option

    If you do not know, such video can be captured even by amateur using ready solutions :-)

  • With screen capture software, there really isn't any easy solution. You may just have to take a leap of faith and hope that any illegal reproductions lead to more sales by more people being able to view. Maybe release a "lite" version for free first with a link to buy the whole doc? Good luck!

  • I'm not sure why the studio is thinking they lost revenue from those 8 million users who downloaded. Most of those users wouldn't have watched the movie if they couldn't download it in the first place. Also I don't understand those who download sh!tload of contents. Quality of their lives will be improved if they stop gluing to TV.

    Just make it really easy to buy contents at cheap price. Create user community and capture user feedback and ratings. iTunes music store has been quite successful.

  • @Alex Thanks for the vzaar link, I haven't seen that service yet. Although, it still relies more on the person having an internet connection to watch the film. I had hoped for a way for them to download a file from the internet, which would be protected from being easily uploaded to youtube, etc... something like how FCP or other services limits the amount of downloads.

    At the very least, is anyone familiar with an easy way to share a file that will expire after so many days. For instance, itunes can allow you to rent a film and download it, watch without an internet connection, but somehow that files still expires 24 hours after viewing it. It would be great to use this to send to people for screenings. Anyone know of a way this is possible for all of us without a budget?

    @subco how would that stop the user downloaded file from being uploaded again to youtube, etc... or shared with others?

    @stonebat we do plan to utilize the vimeo movie option when it's available and have them film up for rent at a cheap price.

    On a side note, I realize there's no way to prevent screen capture, but it would be good to at least try something to make the downloaded file harder to share or upload to youtube. I'm not a big fan of DVD's, and we have a lot of eco-minded people who'd rather skip the DVD and just have a digital file.

  • I've spent a LOT of time thinking about this and to sum up--you really aren't going to prevent piracy. It's better to concentrate on getting your film out there as broadly as possible. Most people who pirate never pay and most who pay rarely to never pirate. Sometimes people who pirate recommend a film to someone who pays.

    It's not fair or cool that people watch your work without you being rewarded, but I've come to grips with that. Often, they're just ripping off a distributor who will, in turn rip you off. So hell, you almost want to encourage it! Additionally, other ways of people watching a film--like most Netflix deals--don't really ever benefit the filmmaker anyway.

    I think you're smart to go direct. Accept that piracy will happen and sit back and enjoy it. Figure out how to make it work for you. Look at what Louis CK did with his concert movie sold without DRM. Other artists are also following this model and doing well.

  • @subco (link, lol) @douglashorn

    Thanks again for your thoughts. At this point, if you want to pirate it than you can donate for a copy: http://tripledividefilm.org/

    I think betting on the benevolence of our audience isn't a bad option, so I guess we're heading in that direction.

  • @jbpribanic - Just to be clear, I don't like or participate in piracy. It bugs me on some level. I just have found that it exists and measures to counteract it quickly become detrimental to a filmmaker's primary goals.

  • If you're determined to go down the anti-piracy route (and see further down about what alternatives I think are better) the only thing I can think of is to have a burnt-in graphic with that person's email on it or something - basically so that if the film is shared online, it will be obvious who it came from. However, you'd have to make a unique one for every purchaser unless there's some clever way of overlaying it at the point the purchaser downloads. Even visible burnt-in graphics can be removed or at least, hidden and any other DRM technique can be got over in some way or other. Ultimately, if you can see it, you can copy it; just like with DRM digital audio, where you can always record from a soundcard output if all else fails. If people are that determined, all you will do is cause sub-quality versions of your stuff to be pirated! Broadcasters have time-limited downloads (like the BBC iPlayer) but that's a potential pain and probably player-dependent so a hassle for the end-user.

    I sell downloadable pdfs of music in my online shop, and for that, in exchange for payment, you get a link which appears in your account and which expires after a set number of days / set number of downloads. However, the file itself lasts for ever once downloaded. I've never watermarked them but I email everyone who buys one to ask them not to share it and make it clear they can do anything else with it they like. I think it's nicer to make the connection with the customer and trust that they will do the right thing, and a lot less hassle. I also have a "trailer" in the form of a partial pdf that people can download for free.

    When making a video, the "what do you want to do with the end result" is usually the most important question to ask (ideally, before you start). So wouldn't it be better to work out a way of using your video which encourages honesty? In other words, make it easier for them to do something positive to support you (as opposed to throwing a lot of money / time / thought / technology at making it difficult for them to rip you off). You don't mention this in your OP, but have a think about what support would be valuable to your cause. For example how about a social media campaign which asks people to donate x amount of money to download your video and support your cause - so people associate payment with support of your cause and/or of your production costs (make a trailer too, to generate interest)? Or have a timed screening online with paid access (a bit like live streamed concerts) which could come complete with twitter or chat window - I've done that with Livestream and it's a great way to create a buzz because not only do you connect with your audience but more importantly they connect with each other. You also create a sense of occasion because people have to be there at a certain time to see it. I would definitely see that as a more positive use of your creativity!

  • kellar42 is correct. I do this all the time for draft projects for clients through Vimeo. If you password it it cannot be seen by anyone without the password so I'm not sure how "anyone" could defeat that approach . . . Please explain? If you want them to have a means of playing (other than streaming, which is what I understood you to mean), mail them a disc.

    Naturally you can't control people so if your donors don't respect your wishes and freely distribute copies of a mailed DVD (or password for online streaming), you're basically screwed anyway. I generally include a copyright splash screen at the beginning of my commercial work but as previously pointed out, that is as easily defeated as removing/hiding a graphic overlay.

    Technology . . . who knew?

  • Encode a version that is either watermarked or has burnt in time code onscreen, then upload with password protection to Vimeo. My 02

  • @dregenthal I do this too on Vimeo for work in progress to share with project teams, but if someone's that determined there are usually ways to capture a stream - so if someone's determined to pirate things, they will. Hence if you work on the basis that piracy is likely to happen, you can relax about that and consider positive options of how to get your work publicised.

  • So, after a screening last week an audience member comes up to talk to me about pirating a downloadable file and sharing it via some online group, and wanted to know my position on piracy. I didn't have much to say but "nothing I can do to stop it."

    In other news, we ended up sharing the file through dropbox which was a nightmare. Due to a lack of understanding about how dropbox works on my part, it ended up that our 6GB file was beyond the 5GB of free space offered by dropbox, resulting in a mess of confusion for users. All in all, never share large files with large groups of people via a dropbox link or folder. It doesn't end well. And dropbox compression sucks.

    Our next step, we put the work on VOD (vimeo on demand), which had it's own problems. VOD officially released a few months ago, but I'm convinced we're all beta testers. There were issues with every browser and with most of the VOD features. Oftentimes, users were unable to make a payment for whatever reason, then VOD wants you to have the user submit a complaint to the "other" section of vimeo's help page, and it's a string of disappointment that doesn't end with someone buying a copy of your film.

    Although, we did sell more DVD's because of this issue. People would get frustrated and just ask for a DVD copy instead. I like VOD despite all of its problems, which are getting better, and I would recommend it to anyone who wants to avoid hooking up with a distributor. But, please make sure you have the "download" option available. Too many people are not setup with strong internet connections or fast computers and it will result in you having to hire someone to deal with complaints, because VOD is void of a complaint button.

    For sharing files we ended up just using the Vimeo 'private' link and download option. This is still pretty straightforward and it's been a lot easier for luddites.

    Check out our VOD page: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/tripledivide - and we put up a custom url http://rent.tripledividefilm.org/ - but as you may notice the social network stats are different for each, and you can only read and write reviews to vimeo native link.

    Hope some of this info helps. Cheers, Joshua

  • Thanks for reporting back on how this went @jbpribnanic.

    I'm starting to think the Upstream Color model is the way to go...Direct Download, iTunes, Theatrical, Blu-Ray, DVD all at once and just eat the piracy or not worry about it.