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Good high bit-rate AND medium bit-rate hack? (extreme pro + class 10)
  • RodrigoRodrigo

    I finally got a sandisk extreme pro (95mb/s 64gb) card for xmas and though I've got tried it out yet, I'm really excited to be done with "could not write" errors.

    I can also crank up my bit-rate since the new card can handle it.

    What I'm curious about is if there's a go-to hybrid hack. As in, the 24H mode being hardcore, for when I'm using the extreme pro card, but the 24L mode being a lot more forgiving, ideally spanning on a class 10 card (Lexar 32gb 133x Speed class 10).

    Basically, I don't want to move up into a hack that ONLY works on my sandisk, rendering my lexar cards useless. For the 'money' shots I'll use the 24H/sandisk, but for regular B-roll stuff, or if I'm running out of room, I'll use 24L and lexar.

    What I currently have on my camera is Aquamotion v2 (it times out my lexar cards around 6min or so). It's better than the first hack I installed (Quantum).

    Any suggestions?

    Here's a film shot with my camera/aquamotion with primarily the kit lens and an olympus f1.4:

  • 30 Replies sorted by
  • ahblezaahbleza

    @Rodrigo If you're using a Mac with Final Cut, I find it works better to first copy the media off the card as a single archive (don't try to ingest directly from the card), then use Clipwrap to convert the MTS files onto a separate volume (where my Final Cut events will live.) When you import, just mark the checkbox so it won't copy into the Events folder, and of course transcode to an LT version to make editing easier. This workflow seems to work fine with me using FM 2.02, and I just finished shooting a couple of hours of footage without issues.

    I'm using Class 10 cards rated at 45 Mbps and 90 Mbps.

  • cupanudlescupanudles

    I HIGHLY recommend Premiere.

  • RodrigoRodrigo

    So it's final cut that's the problem then? (with spanned files)

  • dtrdtr

    Or use Premiere which handles (spanned) AVCHD just fine.

  • JohnTollwannabeJohnTollwannabe

    Some of these NLE's don't play well with the high bitrate mts files (AVCHD wrapped H.264 codec) straight out of the camera. You might want to look into transcoding with 5DtoRGB, Cineform Neoscene, or some other software that will convert the footage to a more easily workable intermediate lossless codec. I know the first two I mentioned can also do a bit of chroma upscaling of the 8 bit camera files to 10 bit 4:2:2 or even 4:4:4. It'll smooth a bit of the ugly 8 bit color banding in the process.

    These intermediate codecs may take up more storage space, but require less computing horsepower to deal with. Then you can re-compress your final product to whatever delivery codec is required for your project.

    Search for "GH2 workflow" and you'll pull up some similar topics.

  • RodrigoRodrigo

    So I did my first bit of filming using flow motion and got an error importing footage into Final Cut Pro (X). It left the footage on the camera and wouldn't let me export it. This is the first long (30+ min) footage I shoot so I don't know of that is related.

    I was able to import short clips fine.

    Also tried wrapping the MTS files using remux but they wouldn't play back right, with little green frames all over the place.

    Could this be related to having spanned 4gb+ files?

  • RodrigoRodrigo

    Gonna bite the bullet and setup Flowmotion 2.0.2

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @dtr Interesting video. Some kind of pre-apocalyptic artistic sequel to BladeRunner...potential/dangers/capacity of modernity/technology. Or maybe they just consider it a "cool light show".

  • LPowellLPowell

    @Rodrigo

    Are there any hacks that have something like Flowmotion for 24H but something like Sanity for 24L

    Not sure what you're looking for, Flow Motion v2 records at 140Mbps peak in 24H (turbo mode) and 60Mbps in 24L. That's the lowest bitrate I'd recommend for 4GB file-spanning in a short-GOP format on 30MB/sec Class 10 SD cards.

  • dtrdtr

    This was filmed with Driftwood AN nebula 444 sharp2 (if I remember correctly, can't keep up with these naming schemes...) in 24H mode. Password = glow

  • dtrdtr

    @Rodrigo Actually I haven't used flowmotion in a very long time. Have had a bunch of Driftwood hacks on it lately and definitely had the file number limit error with those. I'm gonna give flowmotion another go next. Just don't have much project work going on to film at the moment. I'm mostly in planning and networking phase right now...

  • dtrdtr

    @matt_gh2 That's my understanding as well but I don't have the pro editing skills to make use of that extra quality. To be honest, I suspect only a very small percentage of hack users can truly benefit from the super-high bitrates.

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @ Rodrigo re: file number limit exceeded, this is from http://www.personal-view.com/faqs/gh2-hack/gh2-hack-faq

    "There are sporadic reports of a “file number limit exceeded” error message when attempting to record with 64-GB SDXC cards. It looks like the problem is fixed by reformatting the card, and avoided by recording a short clip after spanning and before turning the camera off."

    So maybe have ability to dump files to hard drive available in field, just in case you have to reformat card while out.

    @dtr I'm no expert, but what I hear the more experienced guys say, is that the value of the high bitrate settings is that you can push your color correction further and the image doesn't breakdown. I also think that in addition to this, the different settings do have different image characteristics, as well as strengths for particular types of shooting. That's why I like Apocalypse Now Boom. It's also why a lot of people like the Sedna settings. I think same with Flowmotion. But yeah, the files can get pretty big...break out your 2 or 3 TB drives!

  • RodrigoRodrigo

    That makes sense now. So that kind of sounds ideal then, fast 24H and reasonable 24L.

    I never shoot 720 or anything else. It's nice for the 60fps, but hard to integrate that with the rest of the 1080 footage.

    Good points about the bitrate. Definitely don't want to start getting new errors. I've never done any takes that are the length of my current memory card, so don't know if I'll run into 32gb+ errors. Maybe at 100mbps though. He you gotten that error using flow motion on a 64gb card?

  • dtrdtr

    Oh and another warning: 64GB cards are prone to the nasty 'file number exceeded' error. It occurs after a long take spanning multiple 4GB files. Next time you record this error might occur and the only solution is to format the card. You can first copy your data to a computer, though that's not very practical in the midst of a shoot, let alone if you're trying to catch an ephemeral moment...

    It can be prevented by recording a short clip right after finishing the long one, without turning off/sleeping the camera in between. 1 second is enough. I just don't manage to remember this every time. Very annoying. Having a back-up card can be handy.

  • dtrdtr

    Btw, I'll be the first one to admit it's good geek fun to squeeze every last bit of performance out of our gear but in practice those super-high modes don't really benefit a lot of us. I guess you, like me, publish your video's on the web, not on the big screen or blue-ray. There will be little perceptual benefit from shooting at 146 over 100mb/s or less. Though the high bit rates do drain significantly more memory and CPU resources in handling, editing and encoding. I filled up terabytes of HD space in no time and I'm starting to wonder what it's good for ;)

  • dtrdtr

    I think you're confusing H with 24H. H = 720p/50fps low bitrate, 24H = 1080p/24fps high bitrate. Yes, panasonic's naming schemes are all but clear. See: http://www.personal-view.com/faqs/gh2-usage/gh2-usage

  • RodrigoRodrigo

    The description is a little confusing on that page.

    So 24H = 100mbps, but 24L (& 24H) = 60mbps

    That seems to say that 24H is 100 and 60. I guess it says "peak" at 100mpb, but it says 60 "reliably".

  • RodrigoRodrigo

    Oh, I thought you meant that the 24H was ~60mbps (and the rest lower).

    Hmm, that is higher than what I currently use (Aquamotion v2 (88mbps)), but I was kind of picturing having a 146mbp mode, but I guess that's a ridiculously short filming duration.

  • dtrdtr

    is the high settings (24H etc) 100Mbps not enough?

  • RodrigoRodrigo

    Hehe yeah. Was weird seeing an email with your name commenting on this forum. I was thinking "what a peculiar name to show up in another forum too".

    I'll give that a spin, but then it means I'm not getting 'all the glory' when using the extreme card.

  • dtrdtr

    Hey Rodrigo, no idea you were in the cam hacking business as well ;)

    Are the 24L/FH/H (60mbps) modes of flow motion to fast for your slower card? I'd give that a try.

    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/3337/gh2-flow-motion-v2-100mbps-fast-action-performance-reliability-for-class-10-sd-cards/p1

  • RodrigoRodrigo

    Are there any hacks that have something like Flowmotion for 24H but something like Sanity for 24L, so you can get the 'best of both worlds' when using multiple cards.

  • vicharrisvicharris

    For whatever it means, go with Flowmotion on the large card and Sanity 5 on the smaller one. Sanity 5 is such a good, stable patch that you can't go wrong and it's not that much different to 99% of peoples eyes in them. If you go with any of the new flat style 444 ones, you might have a problem cutting them but prob not. Any intra patch won't span reliably on the smaller cards. Try the two above and see what you think. There's tons others and many people way more qualified to give advice than me. Check out the Drew and Nebula stuff too.

  • RodrigoRodrigo

    Good to know. How is the 24L mode of AN stuff in terms of spanning class10 cards? Back to the original need, having a nice card means I can use a nice 'regular' setting, but sometimes I want to use my crappy cards still.

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