Could be - I'm wondering if something has gone amiss when they make the glass master, but it's not a process I know that much about because it happens in the factory. Then they press the CDs from that. It is really, really weird, and nothing I've come across before.

Thank you for the comment about the music - it's designed to be quite "close" sounding as it's for use in big halls where children have their sessions. We did 28 tracks in all, and it's been a lot of fun - this is the second run. The first run of 1500 was absolutely fine, but that was a physically different master (same company though, I think anyway - although saying that, the text font burned into the circle in the middle of the CD is a bit different, so maybe it's a different pressing factory.

I'm just trying to make sure they don't blame me for this. Really difficult when you have 1000 shrink-wrapped CDs sitting in front of you, all of them unusable!

@peternap That's really nice of you, but I can't sell these CDs!! However, and even better, you can hear all the tracks (undistorted) for free on our development site. It was made a while ago to share the emerging CD contents and uses flash, but provided you have a browser that supports it (not iPod/Pad/Phone in other words) it gives you all 28 tracks of the music and some uses it can be put to.

That music was a lot of fun to do. We have another project for children with special needs (in the pipeline) and a further one for newborns, which is tied in with music in hospitals. So quite a lot of interesting stuff going on. They specifically wanted CDs although we are going to make them more download-friendly in future. Just a shame these CDs are no good!! Anyway, enjoy!

http://musicmushrooms.co.uk/index.html

My favourites are Funga Alafia, Baboushka (maybe @Vitaliy_Kiselev will like that one) and the Hokey Cokey (that's me right at the end).

@soundgh2 Yes - it does, doesn't it? The nearest thing I've heard to that is badly tracking DAT tapes or (if you remember those) Sony PCM tapes when they used VHS to record onto. It's odd that it gets worse in the higher track numbers (which are nearest the edge of the CD, as they play from the centre outwards). But the total CD time is 50 minutes, so it's not as if I was pushing the media too much by going for 74+ minutes and straying too near the edge of the disc.

In the days before absolutely everything was digital, I always thought it was a neat trick to use them to send digital audio from one place to another via a video link. Clever technology - but yes, they are a bit of a brick to carry round. I think that's what old technology is good at - door-props and paperweights!!

I don't have sound on my work computer or I'd listen to it. But, I have to ask, did you have a proof CD made from the glass master before going into production? Usually if the CD blank isn't centered when pressed, you can get something similar to what you are talking about. Again, I haven't heard your tracks but as you move out in tracks on the CD, this gets worse as the diameter of the track gets larger. Could also happen if the CD is slightly out of round but that rarely happens anymore.

Ok, so I listened to your tracks, definitely was pressed slightly off center. You can hear it as it shows up as a slightly cyclical sound. My car CD player does this sometimes because the rubber centering thing on the spindle is worn down. I don't think you'll have any problems with having them do this again.

Heh. I just got rid of an old plextor which would tell me it burned CDs without errors but the CDs would have horrible errors.. Not sure it's really a good way to check!

If you have the right Plextor drive (I have several but use the Plextor Professional) and the right software you can rip the CD and compare it with the master. It should absolutely match 100 percent--except for the initial offset--and anything else is just BS. It is just a big number, and you should have the same number , or numbers on each CD, and rip it 100 times and get the same result. I keep these drives for only one reason--problems with pressed or mass duplicated CDs. And there are lot of junk CDs pressed nowadays.

Yes, absolutely. You rip the CD from the factory, and after the offset if should be identical to the master. The CD text--which BTW should be in the duplicated CD, DOH!--has no effect on the bitstream. Each drive has a different offset, or starting point, which is like a lead-in basically, and after that the CD should be an exact match. You can use EAC with a non-plextor drive for bit matching, or pick up a Plextor Premium on eBay if you want to know what the typical error rates are, Basically, higher error rates mean lower quality pressing. Most CD have some C1 errors, but the CD player will read then using Reed-Solomon system. Now, you probably don't want to get into the nitty-gritty of CD encoding, but I always match the dupe to the master, and I always check the error rate. EAC will do that handily. To see what your error rates should be on your particular drive, just test them against a selection of quality CDs.

However, I do recommend picking up a Plextor Premium (52/32/52) Premium2 712 716 755 760

That has hardware error checking. But EAC will tell you if your CD is really copied correctly.

Hi Mark-- It's complicated, but very easy once you get the hang of it. In its simplest form, you can do two basic tests, compare tracks and compare the whole CD. Go to actions, copy selected tracks uncompressed in one folder Then do the same with the other CD to *a different folder

Then go to tools, wav compare, and compare the waves. Unless you have set the offset, the beginning and ends of the wave might be slightly different, but the middle--the sound--will be absolutely identical.

To compare a whole CD, go to actions, select copy range, uncompressed, and rip the whole CD to one big wave file. Do the same for the other CD, then compare the waves. Again, except for the offset, they should be exactly the same.

The offset varies from CD burner to burner, but it is more or less the lead in and lead out size.

If you can manage a bit of German language you can also use the program CD Vergleich, a free download. If you don't have Plextools, EAC is the one that is the most accurate.

However, it does not really tell you if you have a garbage CD, that is, one that is of low burn quality. Suppose you computer has a great "reader" and can recover the data. The CD can still be really low quality. And here, you can use CD Speed quality test, which comes with Nero or there is a free trial somewhere, but plextools is the way to go. Professional CD analysis for the price of a burner--a 712 model goes for $50-$60. There is also a Lite-on version, but I don't consider it accurate. K-probe can be way, way off. I just go with plextools. Pop the CD in, and it will tell you if it is readable, or has a lot of errors (all CDs have some errors, but they are correctable)

As for Plextools showing a large number of errors, well, you have to know how to use it. A well pressed, Swiss made CD will have almost no c1 errors, a CD from a burner farm will have tons of C1s and and a few C2s. American pressed stuff has 500-1200 errors, and some of the burner farms have really amazing numbers of errors from burner absolute junk blanks at 52x on overheated burners that should have been replaced about a year ago.

Link to "interpreting c1 errors" http://tinyurl.com/987pw3y I consider that information useless, sorry :). I just can't see using a burner that could be off by a factor of ten. I've tested it, and it is not reliable. I tested the burners and software against my 6 Plextors.

So here is a basic question, should you buy your 1000 CDs from a company that uses a quality blank (TY disks) with quality glass master pressing, or from a company that will will sell you el cheapo? And since 99 percent of the companies use El Cheapo, how do you know? Well, ask for a sample, pop it in the Plextor, and Bingo, EOS. You know if it is good, period. And while the CD is in there, see who made the actual disk as well.

Time is money, save time, save money. Lots of those CDs, people buy them, they don't work, and they toss them. You never hear about it, you just lose a customer.

As for believing anything the the company says, well, that of course is ridiculous. "Oh yeah, dude, it is 1000 pieces of junk, but don't worry, we have pro tools" I work with several companies, and I KNOW they are giving me a good disk because I test them.

I'm assuming you burned the CD DAO, if not, simply compare each track. If your CD text did not come through, it probably means they used a burner farm like Kunaki, or they just don't know what they are doing, or there is a problem with the ripper. I mean, leaving out the CD text? There is no excuse--it pops up when you rip it, it is part of the disc. Either way, you should get a copy of your master. That's why it is called duplicating, not "sort of mostly" duplicating.

Well, now you know. The dropped a few samples when they ripped it, or the master had a few dropouts. But if they had run it through THEIR error-checking machine--they usually have an expensive one--they would know if there was a problem, which is what they should do. If it is one or two samples, is it the end of the world? If you can't hear it, AND the error count is low, well, you can make a call there. But chances are the error count is high, maybe not, but that could account for the differences.

Now let's say you do everything right, and you have an exact copy. Does that mean it will play on every CD player ever made? Nope. But low errors, quality disc, exact copy, that's the best you can do. You paid for a copy.

@Mark_the_Harp If they give you the option of providing them with the files online as opposed to via CDR (either via DDP or even just track numbers indicated in the filenames) then you can eliminate the variable of how you burned the CDR. If you are burning your own CDR, all I can offer are the usual suggestions: use the most reliable brand you have experience with, burn at 1x and test before sending.

As far as the issue between the two recording links you mentioned: yes, night and day difference, even on cheap laptop speakers. Sometimes a scratched CD sounds like that in my car's CD player.