Cheap Noir DSLR Lighting

AlbertZ

I'm going to shoot a b/n noir short with my gh1. I'm a student and I usually use cheap CFL lamps with good results, however , for this project they would be too "soft" and "diffuse",on the contrary I need high contrast in order to achieve classic noir look. I've seen lots of cheap lighting setups on the net, however most of it is referred to old DV camera (and thei little 1/3 CCD),so you can image that they're not so fit to the low-light capable Gh1.

The first thing I've learnt is that ISO setting are very very important in order to achieve a noir look: if you watch old noir films of the 40's, you will notice that there is little dof and high contrast at the same time,thus open iris and low ISO setting (old masters used low-ISO film stock). Of course, we can also use very high ISO on dslr cameras in low-lighting situations, achieveng a grainy look, b/n noise (do you remember Godard's Breathless and Alain Robbe Grillet 's Trans Europe Express???).

However, setting ISO is not sufficient,indeed: I NEED SPOT LIGHTS ,cheapy solutions for my tiny budget (I've just spent much money for gh1 and its primes). I tried to snoot cheap cfl lamps, however , even snooted they have a "diffuse"look; many frienss using old DV cam (1/3" CCD) suggested me common worklights with home-made barndoors, however think this would be the worst solution. fresnel lamp are commonly used to achieve noir look,but I was searching a cheapy/diy solution. somene suggested me halogen par lamp , 150 W, 10° spread angle. Anyone can help me, please?

AlbertZ

thanks @airboxlights for your reply :) I've just made a little short film using only two par-30 light (with narrow spot lighting)...they're pretty good for small set (home) with lots of black clothes and so on ;) I think they're pretty good for Rembrandt lighting...however fresnels rock, indeed...

airboxlights

Great shots guys!! Anyway- on topic- warning about par-38, par-30, etc medium-base screw bulbs: yes you get a lot of output for not much money, but the distribution of the field of light out of these is awkward and uneven. not great for much of anything else than a focused spot. They give themselves away as household spot and flood lights. Also very hard to shape cleanly. Good for a back edge though. You can manage this light field by putting some very light diffusion over them, something like opal frost or Hampshire frost. So a clip lamp + a par bulb + some light diffusion, tape, and black wrap. Will work, but really not so great. The quality of the light won't really look right either.

+1 on why the others said on fresnels for a noir look. For rentals and purchases, the cheapest source is theatrical stuff rather than film/video stuff. Theater rental houses are much cheaper. They generally have 500w, 750w, 1k fresnels. Significantly cheaper.

And don't use much diffusion as often on the lights as you would normally. They didn't have the nice high-tech plastic diffs that we do now.

Be extra careful to control all the spill on the walls! Keep them really dark. If you can't afford c-stands and flags, which are the right tools for the job, at least have black wrap. Black foam core v-flats are a relatively cheap way to cut light with no stands.

AlbertZ

@endotoxic greetings! good look with the "old" GH1, it reminds me of dirty 16mm black and white like Schlingensief's film! :) It would be nice to know what LIGHT have used and in what profile have you shooted..(I think smooth in camera + high contrast in postproduction:) let us know! :)

endotoxic

here my cheap noir film.

ITs a cannibal love story, not gore, not trashi no badwords, no nudes, big internal drama. ITs not finished yet. I have an old trailer also.

AlbertZ

@pundit Great shots!

pundit

The following was shot with two crappy 250watt tungsten Fotobestway lights with parabolic reflectors and barn doors. (not fresnels, no scrims or flags) Lights used: http://www.photocontinental.com.au/attachments/Page/137/ministarcon.jpg

Film Noir Series... http://clients.net2000.com.au/~rowmat/slideshows/film_noir/

I am primarily a photographer and this is a series of stills shot on a Pentax K7 @ 800iso with shutter speeds between 1/25th to 1/50th sec and apertures from around F2 to F4. In order to get a similar exposure for video say at a maximum of 400iso @ 1/50th @ F4 I would be looking at lights in the 650watt to 1000watt range. As discussed for 'noir' fresnels are the way to go. Of course meter for correct exposure on the face and let the rest fade to black.

Yes and a smoke machine helps too!

kronstadt

How about a 1000W light like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110714759597 (but it also has fan which can cause sound problems for internal shots). Or you could use something like this cheap Arri clone http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1000W-Fresnel-Tungsten-Continuous-Light-w-Dimmer-Arri-220V-UK-/150753560059?pt=UK_Photography_Lighting_Units&hash=item23199cc5fb#ht_3130wt_828 It's 1000W and has Barn Doors and a dimmer (I'm considering buying this myself). Bottom line is ... in order to achieve Noir look, with GH1 even at ISO 200, you don't need anything more than 500W or 1000W for the hard light.. But you need the Barn Doors and/or Cookies.

AlbertZ

@CRCFilms this is the video, at 2'00" (I hate that terrible music)

Gabel

@AlbertZ: Of course it depends on where in the world you are, but check with your local rental house. A kit of 1x1000W, 2x 650W and 2x300W Fresnels would be somewhere around $100 a day and would provide you with all you need, but you could go down to two 650s and one 300 in worst case scenario.

CRFilms

@AlbertZ Could you link that vid. I'd like to see that.

AlbertZ

@Gabel: ..less than $20 a day...I think I should try, thank you!It' s very cheap indeed, I could rent it on saturdays (sunday is a "bonus" day for shooting ;) )

@CRFilms automotive spotlights: I've just watched on youtube an interesting video: they're sometimes used as diy backlight with great results!you can achieve a pretty good rim light ;)

Gabel

@CRFilms: True, but then again, as many of us recommended was for him to rent fresnels. While they cost some to buy, they are super cheap to rent! Sweden (which is rather expensive) a 2000W Blondie is less than $20 a day and most other fresnels run below that too.

CRFilms

@Gabel ...as the first words in the topic title are "CHEAP"...an automotive spotlight is the most light you can put out for the least money. I wouldn't necessarily use a recharable, but the plug-ins put out so much light, I would totally use them for outdoors fill so you could see some trees and the land scape without needing a Bat-Signal size light. And you could easily tape something to the front to shape the light for indoor use.

Also I think they put out less heat than work lamps...I think. Only added cost is if you have to buy a wall plug adapter so you can plug it in to house current, but if you shoot out doors at remote locations, just park your car as close as you can and you're set. You can buy 4 of these for less than $80, then another $20 for DC to AC adapters and splitters and you're set.

http://www.amazon.com/Peak-PKC0TX-01-Million-Candlepower-Spotlight/dp/B004QAS0JI/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1331980846&sr=1-1

Gabel

@CRFilms: The risk there is that they won't really allow him to shape our sculpt the light, but just sort of "spill it" all over. That's why fresnels are perfect for this job, as they can allow you to get really sharp and perfectly shaped light.

CRFilms

How about something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Rally-7211-Million-Rechargeable-Spotlight/dp/B004AKTB1K/ref=sr_1_14?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1331937894&sr=1-14

Those things put out tons of light. I once shot it out of my car windsheild at night and it gave enough light that my stock HV20 could easily make out the entire front of my house at night with just one light. Imagine using it indoors.

Also, have you played with brightness and contrast settings in your NLE? I was able to get some nice "Pi" looking footage just manipulating the stock B&W and contrast settings in Vegas Studio. Also really throwing those settings past their limits will degrade the image a bit, giving you a grainy look.

AlbertZ

Thank you for all comments and ideas! @P4INKiller & @Vitaliy_Kiselev & @fstopandgo : I've just done a couple of experiments with automotive lamps and led flashlight, I think they're quite good for close-up in extreme situation; of course lighting for a 3x2 m scene you must use powerful lamps; anyone have watched Schlingensief's film "100 years of Hitler" shooted on 16mm and a flashlight? ;) anyway, a good solution could be: - 2x 200W hard light on the wall with home-made cookies -a 150W PAR spot lamp as key (a friend photographer said me that sometimes PAR are used in extreme situations) -2 x 100W super-spot PAR (right, left)for backlight/rim (very useful in noir film)

thanks @fstopandgo, I agree with you, I have used glycerine in the past for experimental projects, it's very useful, I like its distortion, have you ever seen Guy Maddin's film?

@brianluce & @robmneilson Of course I will rent a pairs of Arri for my next projects, now I'm only "messing around" in order to learn lighting setups...

robmneilson

And anyway for Noir you're going to need a volume of more light, and be able to properly control it...meaning lots of nets and flags. Combine that with some practical lighting such as a desk lamp with a replaced higher watt bulb on a dimmer and you will be good to go.

Just remember that negative fill is just as important as using a bounce board to fill in a face.

robmneilson

Best solution is to get real lights, the right tool for the right job. Better to spend $200 in renting some arri's for a weekend, rather than bemoan the lack of control you had on lighting when you're editing.

brianluce

Old and cheap doesn't necessarily mean crappy

Well you got me there. I love my old Pentax SMC. Manual focus, what a concept.

fstopandgo

Old and cheap doesn't necessarily mean crappy. For some artistic purposes they are far superior. Also my lighting remark is based on small spaces. Some Vaseline helps on the closeups or any diffusion filter nowadays. So many options. And you distilled my remark down quite a bit. Also these are just suggestions based on experience and observation.

I really think if you work within the limitations you can get close without going too overboard on lighting.

brianluce

I see. Use crappy glass and flashlights. Brilliant.

fstopandgo

Limit your ISO to very very very fucking low 100-400 max(400 is very high stay lower). Use any lights. Use an old cheap uncoated prime lens. For close ups shine at sharp angles and stop down. Any lights will do from a flashlight to lowels and arris. Chiascuro plus the limitations the actual Noirs had back in the day. Otherwise without the limitations its a waste and it looks like you shot in video in b&w mode on a digi cam. Limitations are key when replicating the noir look. Or you you would be creating something else new which is also good.

brianluce

Get/rent Fresnels, scrims, gobos and flags and dimmers. Then find someone who knows how to use them. If you can't find someone who knows how to use them, get yourself a monitoring solution of some kind, TV, computer monitor, anything you can find. Then be prepared to spend hour after hour toying with the lights to get the look you want.

If you want real noir, you need real lights, Fresnels, no LED bs/Home Depot crap.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

A really cheap alternative would be a good quality flashlight

Btw good LED flighlights with adjustable beam exist.

P4INKiller

A really cheap alternative would be a good quality flashlight, you'll be getting hard shadows from that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't fresnel lamps cast diffuse light? You wouldn't get much contrast from that.

Also remember that applying a contrast curve in post will allow you to eliminate some range between black and white.

Old and cheap doesn't necessarily mean crappy

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