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Noise when shooting VIDEO of landscape with aperture of 22
  • JrbJrb

    Very bright sunny day standing on a hill looking across to other large hills far away.

    14-140mm kits lens, 50 shutter speed, ISO 160, aperture closed down for correct exposure to 22 (no ND used).

    Once I got back and checked footage on large screen I noticed this video had quite a lot of noise.

    The shot that I took with the Voiglander 25mm f0.95 didn't seem to have much noise. I think this was set at f2.8 and then I used a lightcraft variable ND to get the correct exposure.

    So my question is... Does closing down the aperture fully (22) create this horrid noise?

    Does anyone have any advise on what would be a good aperture to use when shooting landscapes? Is there a recommended aperture not to go passed, like 16 or something?

  • 29 Replies sorted by
  • brianlucebrianluce

    @proaudio I was HD100 guy too. Nice cam. Good 720p beats mediocre 1080p.

  • RRRRRRRR

    @Jrb it should be fast enough if the card is formatted in-camera in between patching.. if you get similar results, try doing a Low level format (do a one pass or 7-pass format in osx) to see if the performance improves.. If you look around the forum I'm sure you can find topics about card performance - there was a thread recently where someone linked formatting software that should help get the best out of your card.

    Really, you should be able to use better quality patches than the 40mbps one (without issues). I use that one only for long takes - where IQ is secondary to reliability.

  • bechoubechou

    I just met the same trouble with my gh2 and lumix 20mm Lens. Very noisy at f16... Sunny day and patched with the last sanity version...

  • JrbJrb

    @RRRR I'm using a 32gb Sandisk 30mbps. So maybe the card is not fast enough and its going into fall-back mode? I'm sticking with mpgxsvcd's 40mbps hack for now :)

  • RRRRRRRR

    Watching the SpanMyBitchUp file it does not look like it should.. It might have gone in to fall-back mode due to the high detail, which is a lower quality "escape" setting for when the encoder cannot keep up.

    (perhaps someone with streamparser can reject or confirm this)

    and also - how long did you record for? and what sdhc card did you use?

  • RRRRRRRR

    Hang on, I'll check it out. I can say straight off that the Original Firmware does pretty well in well lit static scenes, because the information it has to handle is less complex. For gop1 you have a constant bitrate - the same amount of information for each frame.

    Also, for a green scenery like the one you have shot you've got most information in the green channel, which has to most information out of the box. (In other words, although it should not perhaps perform better, it should perform very well).

  • JrbJrb

    Anyone have any idea why I am experiencing a better image on high detail landscape scenes with the original firmware compared to the SpanMyBitchUp 170Mpbs hack? All settings shot 100% same.

  • JrbJrb

    Here are the firmware comparisons, all shot at 50 shutter speed, 160 ISO, 4 aperture and smooth -2+1+0-2:

    The original firmware looks better that the higher bitrate hacks... Any ideas why?

    SpanMyBitchUp hack: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/59273165/00002%20SMBU%20FM%204ap.MTS

    Original Firmware http://dl.dropbox.com/u/59273165/00005%20ORIG%20FM%204ap.MTS

    mpgxsvcd 40mbps hack http://dl.dropbox.com/u/59273165/00010%20mpgxsvcd%20FM%204ap.MTS

  • JrbJrb

    Thanks everyone for your help... I just went out and shot the same scene and found that aperture 4 with some ND on gave me the best results on the 14-140 lens.

    But this time I also compared 3 different firmwares: The SpanMyBitchUp hack, the mpgxsvcd 40mbps hack and the original. To my surprise the original firmware looks to have better detail. Any thoughts on why this is happening???

    I will upload the 3 mts files now.

  • proaudio4proaudio4

    jrb, this is true on all cameras... Stay away from closing down that far or else suffer from lens diffraction and noise levels.

    My old JVC HD100 was horrible at f16 - real soft due to diffraction and quite the noise bath.

  • RRRRRRRR

    I couldn't get the 8 aperture to play back on this computer, but from looking at the 22 ap - it definately seems like the noisyness could be due to diffraction unsharpness and a lack of real detail in darker areas.

  • JrbJrb

    Here are the mts files where you can see a lot of noise at aperture 22 compared to that of 8:

    22 Aperture:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/59273165/00000%2014mm%2050ss%20160iso%2022ap%20smooth%20-2%2B1%2B0-2.MTS

    8 Aperture:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/59273165/00026%2014mm%2050ss%20160iso%208ap%20smooth%20-2%2B1%2B0-2.MTS

  • RRRRRRRR

    @Jrb No problem! I guess what that must mean from a theoretical perspective is that an unsharp image introduces false detail = noise (in a highly detailed image). Or, it can be that the ND filter helps to flatten the image and keep exposure range within better limits.. Could you check your histogram to see whichever it is? If the histogram is pretty much the same then it means that diffraction does introduce noise in detailed scenes.

  • JrbJrb

    @RRRR Many many thanks for you advice here... I did some more tests and it appears that there is noise in the shadows at aperture 22.... when bringing this down to an aperture of 8 and using some ND for correct exposure I have hardly any noise. So this is now resolved and I will never go over an aperture of 8 when doing a landscape shot. Many thanks.

  • JrbJrb

    @Tommyboy yes i think your right... ignore clip 36 then.

    I'll go out today and make some more tests... this time noting down all settings

  • bwhitzbwhitz

    Smooth also has a bit more noise...

  • RRRRRRRR

    Due to diffraction it's generally not good to go over f8-9 (if you want the sharpest possible image), however that should not create noise. I don't know the reason in this case, other than that the camera produces noise in the shadows, all over the iso spectrum. For minimal noise it is better to overexpose (make sure to protect whites).

  • TommyboyTommyboy

    @Jrb 140mm zoom looks to me like you were using EX TeleConv.

  • JrbJrb

    Shooting at 24p. Smooth -2, +1, 0, -2. Is it because I have NR at -2? This is something I have overlooked and if this is the case I didn't realise setting NR to -2 would cause this much noise. I have previously compared +2 NR with -2 NR in my back garden and didn't notice much difference, but now with this landscape shot could this be why I am now getting noise?

  • mpgxsvcdmpgxsvcd

    Vimeo will work as well.

  • JrbJrb

    14-140mm kits lens, 50 shutter speed, ISO 160, aperture 22. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/59273165/00026.MTS

    Same as above but zoomed into 140mm http://dl.dropbox.com/u/59273165/00036.MTS

  • JrbJrb

    @bwhitz I was using smooth with -2, +1, 0, -2. And the spanmybitchup hack.

    MTS files almost uploaded, one sec.

  • bwhitzbwhitz

    What was the picture profile used? Patch settings?

  • amateuramateur

    R.I.P megaupload :(

  • HallvallaHallvalla

    @Jrb DropBox

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