Personal View site logo
Make sure to join PV on Telegram or Facebook! Perfect to keep up with community on your smartphone.
Please, support PV!
It allows to keep PV going, with more focus towards AI, but keeping be one of the few truly independent places.
Blackmagic Pocket 4K DCI RAW 3:1 over portable USB C RAID 0
  • NickBenNickBen

    Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K BMPCC4K currently records 4K DCI RAW 3:1 over portable USB C RAID 0...

    Feel free to experiment and share results, results now confirmed with pair of cheapest SSD 120GB storage at 4:1 RAW and higher grade pair of 240GB SSD at 3:1 RAW for 1 hr solid recording...

    Remember, you heard it here first, so please CONTRIBUTE to VK's tip jar for his hard work and open forum this Thanksgiving season...

    Cheers! NickBen

    PS. I would like to keep this thread open EXCLUSIVELY for RAID over USB C with the BMPCC4K positive outcomes, as there's more to come...

  • 22 Replies sorted by
  • cantsincantsin

    Hmm, I don't get the point here - using a run-of-the-mill $30 Western Digital 120GB SSD as a recording device with Pocket 4K with a cheap USB 3.1-to-SATA adapter and having no problems whatsoever recording 3:1 RAW...?!?

  • NickBenNickBen

    @cantsin How many video or photo cameras can you name that can simultaneously power and record to TWO SATA SSD externally via USB C ?

    Nobody said you are restricted to using cheap SATA drives, consider that it works at all, and if you have a portable RAID array of SSD, I welcome all to share their findings here...

    Happy Holidays to all!

  • eatstoomuchjameatstoomuchjam

    Wow. RAID-0? So you're effectively going from one card slot to 1/2 of a card slot in terms of media reliability? It's cool that you can record at such high quality, but that would be a real bummer when one of the two SSDs fails...
    Also, how is that for battery life?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I think whole RAID 0 can be needed only for really bad SSD drives.

    As any good one must work without such complications.

  • NickBenNickBen

    @eatstoomuchjam & @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    There's more to the story, this was just the first public announcement, and I've already addressed your primary concern, simply not published yet.

    Once again, exactly who else can even do this?

    If anyone cares to add their actual findings showing their working RAID setup with the BMPCC4k instead of criticism (welcome, but not to cloud up this specific thread), please do contribute to the topic.

    I am happily encouraging people to explore RAID as an option as it is currently working with external USB C hardware.
    For example, would you care to try a pair of these 7.68TB Micron 5200 ECO drives and see the result?

    https://www.amazon.com/Micron-MTFDDAK7T6TDC-1AT1ZABYY-64-layer-Million-Industry/dp/B07BJ75JN1/

    Once again, consider the possibilities afforded by the Blackmagic Pocket 4K Cinema Camera and new era of USB C SATA SSD media...

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    For example, would you care to try a pair of these 7.68TB Micron 5200 ECO drives and see the result?

    What for? Using big SSD drives to make them fail at the end of the week with all footage?

  • NickBenNickBen

    Vitaliy_Kiselev 9:44AM

    For example, would you care to try a pair of these 7.68TB Micron 5200 ECO drives and see the result?

    What for? Using big SSD drives to make them fail at the end of the week with all footage?

    =========================

    Good thing VK has a great sense of humor, what working professional would do a continuous overnight or daylong capture and not backup data immediately at most convenient point?

    Once again, there's more to the story, stop looking for failure points and look for possibilities RAID afford you and feel free to publish your Actual findings here.

  • eatstoomuchjameatstoomuchjam

    It's a neat hack and it may be true that no other camera can do it (The Z-Cam E2 might be able to since it also supports recording to a USB-C attached drive, but at present it only records h.265 (ProRes and raw are both coming, though).

    In any case, I'm still not sure what the point is of adding additional points of failure to the recording process for only a somewhat marginal improvement in quality. Even the most impressive footage will become useless if the storage fails.

    If you could use an external brick to power a USB-C RAID-10 or RAID-5 which is plugged into the BMPCC (maybe in a backpack since it'd be awkward on a rig), that could be pretty neat and reliable, though not exactly portable.

    Sometimes it's tempting to imagine that Western Digital and Seagate fund campaigns to make everybody want to shoot super high-bitrate raw video. ;)

  • NickBenNickBen

    @eatstoomuchjam you're thinking on the right track if you have access to a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema 4K camera, there's more to the story to be published which address your concerns...

  • eatstoomuchjameatstoomuchjam

    The "possibilities" that RAID-0 affords you are "approximately linear increase in speed with an approximately linear increase in percentage chance of losing all data."

    The possibilities that RAID gives are pretty well-understood after many decades.
    RAID-1 will give no increase in write speed or capacity, but with an approximately linear increase in read speed with a linear decrease in chance of losing all data.
    RAID-10 combines those characteristics, but with a 50% tax on capacity.
    RAID-5 should give faster reads and writes and extra reliability with a 1-drive tax on capacity, though parity calculation can be an issue with slower processors and fast drives.
    RAID-6 is generally a bit slower than RAID-5, but is even more reliable and has a 2-drive tax on capacity.

    If the BMPCC can power up a 3-disk RAID-5 and record 3:1 to it, as it can to a RAID-0, that would be a lot more interesting. The chances of 2:3 drives failing are quite a bit lower than 1:2... even better if it can do a 4-disk RAID-5 or RAID-10.

  • eatstoomuchjameatstoomuchjam

    I am keeping an eye on the BMPCC 4K, but I already have a GH5 and an E2 which probably satisfies my need for micro 4/3 cameras at present. Once the ProRes license is granted for the E2, I'll be pretty happy with it. After having a few cameras that shot raw, I came to three conclusions:

    1) This shit takes up a lot of disk space.
    2) For most of what I do, checking raw output vs prores 422/prores hq with log, there's not a substantial increase in perceived quality or ability to grade. Maybe if I did more green screen work or tried to film scenes that take place in a dark room where it's important to see all the trees outside clearly. ;)
    3) Holy shit, this shit takes up a lot of space. I'm just gonna convert it to ProRes so that I don't go broke buying more hard drives (and backup drives).

  • NickBenNickBen

    @eatstoomuchjam I encourage you to experiment with the BMPCC4K if you are interested in RAID as an option, as you are on the right track in thinking. You would likely be pleased as I was.

    I would like to keep this thread open EXCLUSIVELY for RAID over USB C with the BMPCC4K positive outcomes...

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Well, it is $23 adapter

    image

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=35G-000K-00002

    sa5660.jpg
    589 x 426 - 30K
  • NickBenNickBen

    @Vitaliy_Kiseliv Nope, haven't tried that one, but it's interesting IF it works. If anyone gets that one to work, feel free to post and share results here...

  • cantsincantsin

    I find it quite annoying that this thing got announced as "PV Worldwide Exclusive" - making me (and probably others) think that this was an official hack from Vitaly/Personal View. That's also how it shows up on RSS News Feeds.

    Can this be redacted?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @cantsin

    Done.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @NickBen

    Nope, haven't tried that one, but it's interesting IF it works. If anyone gets that one to work, feel free to post and share results here...

    Just make close photo of controller chip used in yours. It is very few controllers that exist, if yours is same and it works this will work exactly the same.

  • alcomposeralcomposer

    Main thing about Raid0 would be to allow recording of cinemaDNG at 60p. I don’t think currently it’s possible with a single SSD (no matter how fast). SSD SATAIII too our currently at 520MBps, which is near the data rate of 30p cinemaDNG.

    Would be interesting to test the raid0 enclosure! Especially if someone already uses m.2 SSD’s, one can just put them into the raid!

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @alcomposer

    I think they soon add support for BM raw and all this will go away (at least for most people).

  • alcomposeralcomposer

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev,

    Well, CinemaDNG is very high quality. At least having a real raw format would be nice, and getting 60p 4k raw is a great thing.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @alcomposer

    In almost all real sceneries you can compress raw a lot, and cinema dng is just shitty thing made o avoid RED patents (instead of getting rid of them and their owners). BM raw is slightly less shitty thing.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Smart people

    image

    Get Chinese M.2 to USB case + cheap SSD, even not change cable to proper one, add simple hot shoe holder and resell.

    512Gb SSD in Japan will be $263.
    Retail cheap Chinese M.2 512GB SSD is $78, case+cable around $15, custom holder - ala $3, plus assembly. Let's make it $100 (if you get wholesale it'll be around $85-90).
    So, $163 is the small margin Japanese guys live on.

    sa6052.jpg
    755 x 507 - 46K
Add a Comment