Personal View site logo
Make sure to join PV Telegram channel! Perfect to keep up with community on your smartphone.
BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K
  • 484 Replies sorted by
  • Very nice work.

  • Thanks

  • New cage from Lanparte

  • Another nice cage - this time from Ikan

  • I just got my BMPCC 4k and having one big issue: I can NOT downgrade from 6.2.1 to 6.1! (or 5.2)

    This camera came directly with 6.2.1 installed. I installed Camera update 6.1 on my Mac, connected the camera and the only thing I can see is "Camera is up to date". Did the same with 5.2, same result.

    How to downgrade the firmware? There are not buttons/options,... can someone with an "older" BMPCC4k share there downgrade process with me, please?

    Without the option to go back to 6.1, which means getting CinemaDNG back, I will have to send the camera back.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    Feeling about some hacking again?

    Can you hack the BM Camera Update 6.1 to be able to "update" cameras with 6.2.1 installed? (To bring back RAW!)

    I think that would have an impact similar to the GH1 hack back a couple of years;-)

  • @Psyco

    You mean downgrading firmware?

    Or you want to have both BRAW and Cinema DNG?

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    Just downgrading to 6.1 and getting Cinema DNG back (I don't need BRAW).

    So only disabling version check or faking a higher firmware version - litte change.

  • Well, this needs someone to look on how BM Camera Update is working. Right now I do not have much time.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    Well, I had look at the files (Mac version) and found a number "6.1" in a "setup.ini". But changing that to something higher had no effect - so its not that easy.

    But it can't be that hard, as its only checking a number...somewhere.

  • @Psyco

    Just look at logic.

    In simplest case it ask camera about its present firmware and compares it to updating version.

    And most probably number is not located in setup INI, as well as check can also exist inside camera also.

  • Over at bmcuser.com someone successfully downgraded from 6.2 to 6.1.

    http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?22311-Oops!-BRAW-isn%92t-Raw-%96-It%92s-a-Y%92CbCr-codec&p=261031&viewfull=1#post261031

    This suggests you should first try to downgrade from 6.2.1 to 6.2.

    If that's not possible, then it's either hack or send back.

  • @Ralph_B

    They are all using the "old" Pocket 4k that shipped with firmware version below 6.2. The new Pocket I got, had allready 6.2.1 as factory default and its still unclear if this new batch prevents any downgrade...

  • Could well be, since BM needed to pay patent royalties to RED for every camera with CinemaDNG.

  • is the BRaw that bad?

  • ...here we go: The new Pocket 4k PREVENTS any downgrade!

    image This is BM Camera Setup 6.1.

    Anyone with the right tools going to hack that software?

    BM_Camera_6_1.jpg
    1280 x 1173 - 355K
  • @cantsin

    At least here in Germany removing advertised features after purchase is illegal - so, if that ends in a law suit, BMD will also have to pay for every camera they shipped which can't be downgraded.

    @konjow

    No, BRAW has its use, as has CDNG - the right tools for different jobs. Its just that I need the one that got removed (anyone in Germany want to trade an "old" vs. "new" Pocket 4k?)

  • @Psyco Blackmagic doesn't advertise CinemaDNG as a feature of the Pocket 4K, so there's no basis for a lawsuit.

  • @cantsin Yes, they DID - its even written on the old package (as lossless RAW) and in the original datasheet and camera documentation (as cinema DNG).

  • And since the don't advertise it on the package for the cameras that are now being sold, there's still no basis for a lawsuit.

  • Here in Germany you are not allowed to switch out products without propper warning. When I ordered the camera, there where only product pictures and describtions WITH CDNG - they changed it afterwards.

  • @Psyco

    Well, yes.

    But reality is reality.

    RED made private agreement with BM, Adobe, Apple and many more and you will soon see Cinema DNG being phased out, decoder will stop updating already, any new GPU features won't be supported.

    I guess that soon we will see Cinema DNG to be fully removed and available only as paid addon for good cost. BM has interest in this similar to Red to try to keep blocking Kinefinity (I think Z-CAM already got the message proper) and keep it focused on internal Chinese market.

  • Here we go (from the official BM Forum):

    We recently had to change the type of LCD touchscreens that we use in the manufacturing of the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. In order to use the new touchscreens, cameras were shipped with v6.2.1 of our Blackmagic Camera software. Unfortunately, cameras with v6.2.1 pre-installed will not be downgradable to v6.1 as the v6.1 software does not support the new screen.

    Sound like a cheap excuse to me.

  • Hold on guys, I'm not getting where all the fuss with Red licensing is coming from. As per https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNG : "Digital Negative (DNG) is a patented, open, lossless raw image format written by Adobe used for digital photography." CinemaDNG is same thing with "TimeCode" and "FrameRate" tags in EXIF.

    Red Raw is completely different beast: it's a wavelet AND lossy codec, similar to JPEG2000.

    Any reliable sources on "RED suing Blackmagic for patent infringement", or is it some kind of conspiracy theory?

    As far as I know they mentioned somewhere that they got a patent claim from "some company", but as far as I understand these guys (I mean everyone in Silicon Valley ) are constantly getting claims from all kind of patent trolls, so what? Why would it affect the industry?

  • Let's dig it deeper:

    "...TIFF/EP provided a basis for the raw image formats of a number of cameras. One example is Nikon's NEF raw file format, which uses the tag TIFF/EPStandardID (with value 1.0.0.0).[1] Adobe's DNG (Digital Negative) raw file format was based on TIFF/EP, and the DNG specification states "DNG... is compatible with the TIFF-EP standard".[2] " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF/EP

    Any news on Red suing Nikon or ISO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Organization_for_Standardization) for patent infringement?