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Panasonic GH5S GH5 S, 4K Video Edition
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  • So.. is it better to go GH5s from the 4 or the regular 5? I am leaning toward the S due to the fact that I have a Ronin if I need smooth stuff.

  • @Brig

    Actually it is all reverse. Rode VideoMic Pro is best sold mike.

    And it is always seller who uses such idea to overcome min MSRP limit.

  • @Vitaliy

    But of course they did! How else they can stay afloat and sell their products except with that same old gazoomambolojuboleyao tactics called “lets throw in some free crap mics that nobody wants and some free soon-to-be-obsolete media that nobody buys in order to sell a product that nobody likes because we made a camera that rarely anybody needs ”!

    Nothing can make one laugh like “infenious” corporate marketing strategies...

  • @peaceonearth - Yeah, that was damn good.

    I currently have a GH4, I'm trying to decide if I should spend more for the S or not...

    @bwhitz - I was so glad to ditch my GH3. It made me miss my gh2s.

  • Price reductions started faster than expected, but using bundles, as Panasonic is checking price using robots.

    Panasonic LUMIX GH5s +Rode VideoMic Pro + SanDisk 128GB Extreme PRO SDXC + Case, $2497

    https://www.focuscamera.com/panasonic-lumix-gh5s-c4k-10-2mp-mos-wi-fi-bluetooth-mirrorless-ilc-camera-body.html

  • @peaceonearth Yes, that was very impressive! Best thing I've seen shot on the GH5s!

    @Isaac_B

    You should try the GH5's 6K mode. That detail you describe as being missing, once you shoot in 6k all that fine detail that is resolved out in the 4K mode reappears. There's more detail and tonality to the image that you don't get in the 4K modes.

    hmmm, very interesting. I'll have to check that out when I end up renting the camera. Good thing to investigate.

    From the 4k footage I've seen from the GH5S, there's a significant absence of detail due to the smaller sensor size.

    yea I don't think the sensor size is really the problem. I see more detail in Blackmagic 2.5k footage than allot of GH5 videos (that's a smaller sensor as well)... at least more "texture" anyways. Not sure what they each actually measure on a resolution chart. I think the problem is the processing going on in the camera. Noise reduction doesn't seem like it goes down far enough to stop it from stripping texture out of everything. It gives the image that "highly-detailed-plastic" look. It needs a "full-off" setting. I don't care if they even make it paid-firmware.

    Oh also, there was a still comparison somewhere and the RAW photos had GOBS of detail. Then, with the JPEG mode stills, you could see all the processing and artificial sharpening ruining the image. I'll have to find that blog again...

    @sgttom

    Could it simply be that some users are not turning noise reduction and sharpening down to -5? Another thing I heard is that Panasonic lenses automatically correct for distortion, which softens the image. So someone decided they would add sharpening to make up for it. Neither of these features can be disabled unless you use manual lenses.

    I think that definitely helps. But I'm afraid that even -5 isn't far enough. Processing seems VERY heavy in the GH series. But, yea, I still have a GH3 now (also had GH2) and I always used manual lenses.

  • Very impressive, indeed. Shows what you can do with prosumer-grade equipment these days (including the lighting).

    Prosumer-grade equipment, and an enormous amount of talent…

  • shot with a GH5s. Impressive

  • Don't think the GH5s has a smaller sensor--or the image would not be wider.

  • @bwhitz

    You should try the GH5's 6K mode. That detail you describe as being missing, once you shoot in 6k all that fine detail that is resolved out in the 4K mode reappears. There's more detail and tonality to the image that you don't get in the 4K modes.

    From the 4k footage I've seen from the GH5S, there's a significant absence of detail due to the smaller sensor size. Few folks are discussing that big trade-off in losing detail for better lowlight performance.

  • @bwhitz

    Could it simply be that some users are not turning noise reduction and sharpening down to -5? Another thing I heard is that Panasonic lenses automatically correct for distortion, which softens the image. So someone decided they would add sharpening to make up for it. Neither of these features can be disabled unless you use manual lenses.

    I've avoided native lenses since back in the day when I hada GH2 (still have it actually). People always said they look overly sharpened. It makes sense now.

    I have a GH5 at the moment and am saving up for the GH5s, uncanny how its sensor is blowing away the Sony A6300, which I thought was great in low light not too long ago.

  • I use a GH4 (with it's much criticised 8 bit 4:2:0 4k H264 format) in multi-camera setups with Sony FS7, RED & BMD cameras and have never had a client notice. I'm sure you can see the difference, but my paying clients are extremely happy and love the finished, graded product.

  • @mrbill

    It’s a big ask for a significantly sub 2k camera to produce anything like the footage that a red, an arri, a varicam or even an fs7 produces

    To produce EXACTLY footage like these cams, yes... it is. But to get somewhere close? I don't think it's that far off. The Sony's are very nice, they do appear to actually make a 4k image and retain fine-textures... but they lack 60fps in 4k and a useable codec (for what I need). I can't even think of a project this year that I won't need 60fps over-cranking on... even for a B-Cam... so those are out. Then on the other hand, you've got the GH5's, great camera with great features... but the image doesn't even look like 2K. I really think the GH5 image comes down to too much noise processing. Even -5 doesn't seem far enough. All the great subtle-detail that makes a 4k image fun and immersive to watch is lost. The NR is probably just assuming it's noise and throwing it away... because the GH5's DO have lots of detail... but no texture. Everything seems to have this "outlined-crunch" to it. It's a very frustrating image.

    But, oh well. I guess the sub-2k camera aren't a total package yet. Maybe this year we'll see a Sony with 4:2:2 10-bit and 60fps at 4K... at least to an external recorder. Until then, I've got a Ursa 4.6k that don't own, but can use all the time... and a Red I'll be using for a few months coming up. It would have just been cool to have a small form-factor camera like the GH5s that could make a high-end image. I'll probably still rent one at least to make sure of myself...

  • @bwhitz - why not buy a Sony alpha series camera instead? It’s a big ask for a significantly sub 2k camera to produce anything like the footage that a red, an arri, a varicam or even an fs7 produces

  • @GeoffreyKenner Well, that's why I said I'm going to continue to look at videos and probably rent one myself... BUT, thus far, I haven't seen a GH5s video that appears to resolve over 2k. Maybe it does... but the details are all removed and it looks digitally sharp in the fine-areas (GH5 series needs a full-off setting). Like the camera is removing the natural fine-textures because it thinks it's noise or something. It's hard to explain, but like I said... I do work in the industry professionally... I look at Red, Alex, bla bla bla... footage all-day long, and shoot on it often. I know what to look for in terms of color-workflow, or when to overlook it... but I'm STILL not seeing that fine 4k smooth-detail that the Varican, EVA1, or Blackmagic's produce. Not trying to make any definitive statement... just observations thus far.

    The Varicam is certainly not as detailed-rich as the GH5s when it comes to the video you show.

    ?... Did you mean the other way around? The Varicam definitely has more detail... it looks like a RAW still image DSLRs take. Same look you get from Red 4k. (I mean, it should, it's a "pro cinema" camera) It's very-detailed, but not with any of the digitally-sharp grossness that dumb consumers confuse with detail. GH5s still look like upscaled 1080p (yes, I could be wrong for the 1000x time), even when downloading original files and such. Everything looks like it has "outlines" drawn around it.

  • @bwhitz

    The Varicam is certainly not as detailed-rich as the GH5s when it comes to the video you show. That being said, the Cinematographer clearly has a clue of what he's doing compared to a lot of GH5/s stuff which are done by VLogers on their vacation trip or approximate testing. You're comparing Panasonic commercial who hired a director/dp/colorist/.../ with the next kid buying this camera to do unboxing videos and travel reviews.

    Lastly, if you purely compare the two, here are things have noticed in the Varicam commercial and are absent in most GH5/s videos (and which are clearly known to create sharpness): 1) Chromatic Aberration, such a "mistake" in optic create sharpness, especially when it's thin. The reason is simple, it underline every lines and create micro-contrast. Compared to the overused Panasonic / Leica everyone use which are surgically soul-less (small distortion, vignetting, invisible chromatic aberration) 2) Colors, the color Grading in that video you posted is Great (because a colorist went through to make it look great), in many GH5/s stuff, people just apply a LUT and think "ok it's good now" while these camera can be used for VLoging, they usually need deep care in post-production workflow to be dealt with (and it's even worse with people shooting nowadays in Logarithm for every movie and start color grading straight without using Color Management making all their effort to waste) This is IMO the biggest killer that makes a lot of footage non-cinematic (or not-Red not-Arri like footage if you prefer). Chances are if you buy / rent a red or Arri, you don't use it for snapchat and have knowledge of the beast while if you do for the GH5, there's no guarantee the majority doesn't buy this product to shoot pictures of their dogs 3) Framing which orientates the eye to make things pop up and others to disappear. 4) Lighting, sounds about right since light deposit and shades create contrast, underline some parts of the frame.

    Then yes, there are things that comes to the realm of taste. I still love the texture / color my GH2 produce anytime compared to the GH4/GH5/GH5s. It's certainely not natural but it's to my taste (to be fair if you take a look at it, nature sucks most of the time. It's grey, averagely saturated and chances are in your city the lights are cheap not of quality).

    It's easy to find bad examples:

    Just test a camera to see if it fits your needs, don't judge over the internet.

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  • Hope Panasonic does a firmware update to fix their timecode implementation.

  • @bwhitz the funny thing is if you put 25p on 24p, or you move to any kind of timeline with fewer frames, you get that jump. But if you put 24p on a 25p timeline it isn't so bad. Easy enough to fix, anyway.

  • @DrDave Yep, I was just gonna say that was probably it...