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iMac Fake Pro Computer coming fall 2017
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

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    • 27" IPS 5K 500nit screen (means no HDR)
    • 8-bit panel, uses dithering to emulate 10 bits
    • soldered Xeon CPUs
    • soldered RAM
    • soldered SSD
    • soldered GPU
    • completely non upgradable mess
    • cost from $5000, but it is only 8 core CPU, minimum ram and HDD
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  • 38 Replies sorted by
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

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    http://barefeats.com/imacpro_vs_pt1.html

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  • MikeLinnMikeLinn

  • AzoAzo

    I would purchase a new proper "Mac Pro" providing it was actually upgradeable. In regards to purchasing a used Mac Pro 5.1 at the end of 2017 it is simply not worth it IMO. I have been running a hackintosh for about 3 years with no problems at all. The main thing I do to prevent problems is to hold off on the OSX updates for a couple of weeks. You could build your own Hack Pro for about $3K that will last you a lot longer and also outperform the Mac Pro 5.1 in many different ways with more flexibility and overall bandwidth.

    iMac Pro = I will pass not interested at all. IMO Apple is complacent FULL STOP.

    Here are two different configurations that allow you a lot of flexibility in terms of price/performance and flexibility.

    X99 System: https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/the-perfect-customac-pro-macos-high-sierra-10-13-on-x99-full-success.227001/

    X299 Sytem: https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/skylake-x-x299-live-the-future-now-on-macos-high-sierra-10-13-successful-build-extended-guide.229353/

  • eatstoomuchjameatstoomuchjam

    You could also, in theory, get an older Mac Pro (5,1) - it looks it can run with dual Westmere X5690's (6 cores @ 3.46 ghz). In that config, it can take more ram than either the trash can or the new iMac (128GB for the newer ones, 160GB for the older one) and you can put an off-the-shelf GPU in it. Apparently there are some power-related shutdowns with the 1080ti (unless you use external power or poach it from SATA), but dual 1080's work OK.

    I got curious so I did a little poking around on ebay:

    • Mac Pro 5,1 with 16gb of RAM and 12 3.46 ghz westmere cores: $1199 (you can get this a little cheaper if you buy one without the upgraded CPU's (about $500-600 and get a CPU upgrade kit for $300)
    • GTX 1080: $750 each (I went with macvideocards.com because he apparently flashes firmware onto the cards that makes them work better when booting)
    • Memory: $55 per 2x8gb kit

    So that'd be 12 3.46ghz cores with 64gb of ram and 2 gtx 1080's for a total of about $2919 - and it'll run OSX without hackintosh. That's not too bad.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @peaceonearth

    If you install Hackintosh it does.

  • peaceonearthpeaceonearth

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    does it run FCPX and Logic Pro X?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @peaceonearth

    For example system on two used Xeons (or even AMD) + GTX Nvidia card + 40" 4K Samsung TV are also very fast. Just cost around 4 times less.

    AMD RYZEN Threadripper based system is more, but also not too much.

  • peaceonearthpeaceonearth

    RAM isn't accessible by the user anymore. You have to open the chassis.

    Vincent says it's fast. Very fast. http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2017/12/12/apples-new-imacpro-has-an-impressive-200-300-speed-bump/

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

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    https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/imac-pro

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  • alcomposeralcomposer

    I replaced a HD in an older iMac, (two actually) so I already have the suction cups! (Mind you I think they use glue now)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @caveport

    The most notable is that the iMac's RAM isn't soldered directly to the motherboard. That means it is technically replaceable down the line, something that hasn't been the case in a 21.5-inch iMac since 2013.

    Huh.

  • caveportcaveport

    RAM access has never been an issue on iMac, and has ALWAYS been user serviceable. You guys crack me up!!

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    To add RAM you'll need to pry the case apart and remove the screen entirely. That's not what I'd call "user-serviceable," and Apple agrees. If you start tinkering with these parts, you'll almost certainly void your warranty.

    :-)

  • alcomposeralcomposer

    Very true. I'm thinking of purchasing a 2011 Xeon Asus motherboard, but it will be obsolete very soon... (Serious)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @davedv

    Apple has been moving toward non-upgradable designs for quite some time now. In part because most consumers seem to care more about whether a product is thin and light, than whether it is upgradable, repairable, or sustainable

    It is reverse view. It is Apple who had been vastly interested in such designs as they are much cheaper to make, hence bigger profits.

    @CFreak

    it's also called "designed obsolescence".

    I find this term bad. As it assumes that some group of bad individuals made decision to design product in such way and did it mostly because they are bad people. In reality is whole system that constantly reproduce same issues and you can't do much with them (despite various conferences and speeches) without destroying system.

  • CFreakCFreak

    @davedv it's also called "designed obsolescence".

  • davedvdavedv

    Whatever happened to Apples commitment to sustainability and landfill. Having a system that can be upgraded reduces e-waste.

    Apple has been moving toward non-upgradable designs for quite some time now. In part because most consumers seem to care more about whether a product is thin and light, than whether it is upgradable, repairable, or sustainable.

    This article from a few years back, tracks some of Apple's path toward designs for products that are effectively disposable: http://ifixit.org/blog/2763/the-new-macbook-pro-unfixable-unhackable-untenable/

    [In 2008] Apple performed a market experiment. They released the super thin, but non-upgradeable, MacBook Air in addition to their two existing, easily upgradeable notebooks: the MacBook and the MacBook Pro. When Apple dropped the MacBook Air to $999 in 2010 to match the price point of the MacBook, they gave users a clear choice: the thin, light, and un-upgradeable MacBook Air or the heavier, longer lasting, more rugged, and more powerful MacBook. Same price, two very different products ...

    It was up to us: did we want a machine that would be stuck with 2 GB of RAM forever? Would we support laptops that required replacement every year or two as applications required more memory and batteries atrophied?

    Consumers overwhelmingly voted yes, and the Air grew to take 40% of Apple’s notebook sales by the end of 2010.

  • alcomposeralcomposer

    Good to see memory is replaceable.

    Inclusion of 10GbE was simply to bring spec of my build into iMac build. So that we can see the comparative build in PC.

    Back of iMac pro inside looks like Rams head. Scary.

  • Amadeus5D2Amadeus5D2

    the huge apple logo seems to be the most important think (on the front). Ah, I understand Apple logo is sophisticated like Nike.. Lacoste.. etc. Why they haden't instead fill the whole area as screen. It looks to me very chunky. I guess no surface pen support, what a shame. Can the screen be rotated horizontally ( flat), no?!?.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Btw memory is replaceable at least.

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  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Cheaper adapter - https://www.amazon.com/10Gtek-Ethernet-Converged-Network-Adapter/dp/B01LWU8BEB/

    But 10Gb is still not home friendly solution. With very expensive parts with margins in thousands percent's range,

    I don't think Asus, Gigabyte are giving hardware away for free. (I actually own quite a few Gigabyte motherboards and they are great!)

    Btw you'll be shocked to know that around 15% of their MB/budget GPU costs are spent on colorful packing, 15-20% on marketing and around 20% on doubling research and efforts to make same thing but with rgb led, or same thing but black, or same thing as competitor. So if this guys made mostly standardized product sold in simple standard cardboard box you could have 50% of your money saved.

  • alcomposeralcomposer

    There are some open software projects worked on by very inteligent people, and many developers move on to larger proprietary software.

    The problem is that in many open projects it's possible to see code commits Etc, unlike closed software. So we get to see much more "colourful" issues.

    I really didn't want to turn this thread into a software debate. I just wanted to compare iMac Pro to what I could build from parts, and the cost. Also considering all costs associated with build.

    I think that a PC will always be cheaper, but it really depends on what people want to purchase anyway.

    Striving to purchase the cheapest gear still fulfills capitalist concepts. I don't think Asus, Gigabyte are giving hardware away for free. (I actually own quite a few Gigabyte motherboards and they are great!)

    So it's more about the fact that the iMac Pro is about $1000 usd more expensive than PC. Does one get $1000 more worth of "value"? That is up to the individual to decide. Do I think it will be a super-seller? No- it's probably more of an aspirational product anyway.

    But as there are many discussions about value I think it's useful to quantify it. The aim was to get as close to iMac as possible, hence why I included 10gbe. (Which I think is a good thing to make standard these days with RAW cameras Etc.)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Well I agree with that. I try to use alternatives when possible.

    No need to use alternatives even, but no need to sponsor corporation either.

    Mind you this is why I have a soft spot for open software, as software shouldn't have any cost, and rather the developers should be supported.

    I do not have any soft spot for so called "open source" software.

    Without removing capitalism it is good example of uneducated people cooperation who want to make good thing but turn out to be blatant profanity, just other way to exploit people. One of research showed that big open source libraries and soft remain open as it is handy for now, yet 70-80% of all code are made by corporate bees who just work on it during work hours, sometimes from important commits corporate bees part can reach almost 100%. So, it is just way for corporation to cut workforce expanses by firing double positions and make remaining work more.

  • alcomposeralcomposer

    Well I agree with that. I try to use alternatives when possible. Hence using affinity photo as opposed to photoshop. But for Photoshop I have different issue. I find it hard to ethically use software that will render my files ransom if I don't pay. Otherwise I would gladly pay if i needed to use the software, without alternative.

    Also remember small guys software can be much more expensive, look at Nuke Etc. (Much more specialised- powerful and smaller install base)

    Mind you this is why I have a soft spot for open software, as software shouldn't have any cost, and rather the developers should be supported.

    Anyway, is my build a bit expense? I think that's quite good prices for such a rig. MSY is very competitive.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @alcomposer

    I don't quite know how paying for software is sponsoring capitalism. Technically buying anything is sponsoring capitalism.

    Well, you are wrong. Software is the goods that have zero cost for manufacturer to make one more copy.

    I can understand support of small developer, this is good thing to do in the sharks world. But sponsoring corporation is stupid.

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