Grind Grid - crazy matrices for GH2

apefos

After finishing developing of "The End NR4" patch, I perceived that the achievements in matrices could bring back an old project: "Grind Grid".

The numbers and quantization found in The End made possible to find the best settings in matrices for these patches below.

They try to introduce, to create a noise/texture pattern completely disrespecting the discrete cosine transform frequency. Of course this is experimental in terms of image results. But in terms of stability I think it will be the same of The End if you use The End ini files as a base.

The first matrix in the "Grind Grid" project is called "PinWheel" because it uses this kind of shape in the matrices alternately using different intraframe/interframe and different I and P/B frames.

This is my first matrix settings which uses different interframe, different I/P frames, and a mix of them in fallback, very interesting math combinations.

It is good idea to try this patches in gop2 because in gop1 this does not make sense, the different matrices in I - P/B is what does the trick.

So copy/paste these matrices below using "The End NR4 High104 Gop2-2-2-2-2" as a base. Deblocking Tables do not need changes. You can also use the "The End NR4 High104 Gop2-2-3-2-4" because it can be more stable in NTSC.

I am using just four different numbers, the most significant numbers used in The End, and looking at the draw below you can perceive there are almost infinite combinations in the pixels, this are the two first attempt. The draw is just a simple view. The luma and chroma matrices have different values, the I and P/B frames also different values, shape alternates between I and P/B. It is possible to make the alternation to be vertical, horizontal, two, three or four pixels together, almost infinite ways...

You can see the inspiration here in this link:

https://www.google.com.br/search?q=vane&biw=1920&bih=981&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=iokhVe-6MoHosAW2yoLwAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=pinwheel&revid=1246846439&imgdii=_

I also have many other handmade draws, I did them months ago but now it is possible to do due to the achievements from The End. Other draws are inspired on chessboard and other custom nature and geometric shapes... if I have time I will release some...

It would be possible to use three draws in same patch, one draw for I, another for P another for B in a GOP6 setting, but I think using two draws in a GOP2 for just I/P can be better quality. The matrices below have two draws, one for I another for P/B.

Manicd

Pinwheel v1 text file doesn't have difference between I and P/B scales?

Pinwheel v2 has the effect differences and am now doing a image comparison vs End gop2 m36, in 24p.

Manicd

Okay so my quick test results are interesting...

Pinwheel v2 at iso 1600 is better image than End NR4 gop2 m36. The noise in the blacks and shadows appears less and smoother. Overall image is cleaner.

At iso 640 there was blue channel issue. I think it might be my camera as I have seen this before when testing other patch settings. The extra blue shows mostly in midtones. I will have to test again at 640.

Although I also compared End NR4 gop2 m36 vs MoonT8 at 640 iso. They are very comparable and warrant further testing between them. If pinwheel v2 is actually okay at 640 with no blue issue, then pinwheel might be an improvement over moon as well.

Edit: I tested 640 again and the blue/luma increase is still there. Weird because it's fine at 1600.

Edit2: With a little gamma change in post the 640 appears okay. I'm now comparing it to valkyrie and moon.

Edit3: pinwheel v2 iso 640 post/grading shows mud.

frullaccia

@Apefos @Manicd While waiting for tests from Manicd, I also noticed a slight blue nuance in shadows when trying the Apefos_444_2 matrices (on the other side, colors are a little more vivid with that matrix).

I also selected some good Gop2 patch taken from your works, with little changes. I will upload them later. They look to me very interesting and competitive with Gop1 patches.

Thanks for now.

frullaccia

@Apefos @Manicd

ALPHA = The last Gop 2 by Apefos, with little changes. Very sharp and clean. The 96 datarate is fine. At 128 everything works fine in my camera, except variable speed option.

GAMMA = The last Gop 2 by Apefos with matrix 444_2nd version, and little changes.

frullaccia

Sorry, THESE are the correct uploads.

frullaccia

@apefos And... Don't care about stupid people!

apefos

The upload below has the correct pinwheel V1, in first upload the v1 is wrong, here below it is correct.

Also I created the V1b and V2b with a small difference to try to avoid the blue issue.

apefos

Here are all my draws about the "Grind Grid" project:

I do not have more time to work on it, so you can use the numbers from the V1b and V2b to apply in the designs below:

apefos

better quality photos from the draws, numbers are just first attempts so cannot be good, just use the draws design, use the numbers from txt files v1b and v2b because they are correct, also v1 and v2 can be good numbers.

Manicd

Thanks. It is interesting but I need to read or understand more about matrices/settings/avchd before I do testing with something like this. And I begin to feel like is there anything left to improve with the patches?

fatpig

I know nothing about matrices. What exactly does this affect? Color subsampling? How about some comparison images against "The End"?

apefos

matrices affect noise and texture.

apefos

These are more mature versions of "PinWheel":

(if someone are willing to create matrices using the designs from the draws, then the numbers from these patches below can be good)

the draws below shows when the matrices are side by side in the image, four matrices together. The different grey tones means the different numbers used in the matrix, there are four numbers in each matrix. Two pinwheels are created, one with the two small numbers, one with the two big numbers. the position of pinwheel changes between I and P/B frames. Two numbers used for each pinwheel to helps a better dithering in the image. there is a difference in v1 and v2 in the horizontal/vertical position of the numbers.

versions d have a higher quantization in fallback to help denoise and blue issue. versions e the quantization in fallback are inbetween c and d.

apefos

animated gif showing the pinwheel v1 and v2 in action.

apefos

here it is, the grind grid pinwhell v2e gop2 patch:

compare it versus the end nr4 all-intra or versus the end high104 gop2

edit post: this version seems to show the rain problem.

apefos

GRIND GRID PINWHEEL V2D DEBLOCKING TABLES 6-36 PATCH

This is the perfect matrix version, with correct deblocking tables, solves the rain problem.

The image looks beautiful, remember me the old fashion dof adapter ground glass texture.

in 24p iso 640 there is no mud, using the 24H recording mode. in iso 1600 some mud appears in 400% zoom, but less than the the end high104.

this patch can be used as a base to develop new grind grid designs based on the handmade draws, using the same matrices numbers and same deblocking tables.

apefos

I did some tests now with the patch above, indoor / outdoor, in iso 640 24p 24H recording mode the pinwheel v2d shows good texture in dark areas, some kind of dithering in low light, delivers an interesting texture. in good light also works good. The noise seems to be more random and sandy. it is interesting to see when the image is in focus and start to become out of focus, turning into a bokeh, like a stained glass in church.

apefos

This is the pinwheel inverse:

GRIND GRID PINWHEEL V2D "INVERSE" DEBLOCKING TABLES 6-36 PATCH

It alternates the numbers small and big swapping the pinwheel position, see the gif.

apefos

Feedbacks welcome, mainly in 24H recording mode. Please compare the V2D, V2D inverse and the The End all intra.

humpman

I should try these on GH1 also ) But there is bitrate problems, so not so much freedom to manipulate them.

apefos

@humpman there are people who consider the GH1 image to be pretty good and use it until today... But I do not own it, so I cannot develop patches to it, sorry.

apefos

GRIND GRID JUMP

The Grind Grid Jump uses the matrix design from the red/green hand made draw in the sheets above, it is one of the most random design I did and also P frames are the inverse of I frames for more texture generation in gop2.

It is an attempt to create a new noise/texture pattern to the image. If you want to compare, compare it with Pinwheel, The End NR4 and Sharp_05 to perceive noise/texture differences in light and shadow areas.

apefos

Anyone tried this? Seems to be a crazy digital daydream I did... The animated gifs are funny!

DD11

Oh, yes, they are funny. Thank you, I will try!

apefos

@DD11 see my report about it: http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/194846#Comment_194846

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